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General => Users => Topic started by: johanr on July 07, 2009, 09:19:11 pm

Title: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: johanr on July 07, 2009, 09:19:11 pm
Hi again been busy with the family and new garden lately.

Have done a duct tape solution including zwave relays (on off devices) to control the watering valves.

Now I wanted to add these devices to the zwave network and doing as should with the tricklestar in config mode press and hold, green light, release and press again, blinking.. Now to the device (holding the tstar next to it) doing the include(3 quick presses) also tried doing the 4 press procedure which does a reset.

Nothing.. the tricklestar doesn't even try to zoom in on the device.. usually this can be seen by faster blinking and then lock on.. =)

I have reloaded the router(just in case) and have tried this a few times with both devices and looking at the log(level 36,40,41) but I start to wonder if the remote is not even in the network?
 how can I check that?

Does the tricklestar needs to be connected 24/7 to the usb?
 I have not had it connected in a while before now since I only use it for inclusion. Connected it a day before though to charge it...

I have seen this before and then I solved it by adding all devices once again but surely there must be a simpler way since there starts to be a few devices now in our home..

Thankful for all inputs

-johan
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on July 07, 2009, 10:27:27 pm
Nothing.. the tricklestar doesn't even try to zoom in on the device.. usually this can be seen by faster blinking and then lock on.. =)
Try to reset the devices with a z-wave remote before inclusion. Were they deployed in another network?

Quote
I have reloaded the router(just in case) and have tried this a few times with both devices and looking at the log(level 36,40,41) but I start to wonder if the remote is not even in the network?
 how can I check that?
you should see it in the node list. It is written to the log (36) at startup.

Quote
Does the tricklestar needs to be connected 24/7 to the usb?
no

Quote
I have not had it connected in a while before now since I only use it for inclusion. Connected it a day before though to charge it...
make sure it is well charged before doing any operations

Quote
I have seen this before and then I solved it by adding all devices once again but surely there must be a simpler way since there starts to be a few devices now in our home..
I've seen "lockups" for this remote, too. It always went to "red" when trying to include devices. But as it does not even blink faster in your case, I'd assume the node info frame does not get sent from the plugs if they are still included in another network.
But you can always try to exclude it with the "remove node" command in 0810, then do a reset of the controller (up and then up till it lits in all three colors), then add it again with the "add node" command. I prefer "add node" instead of "download config". The usb dongle stays at node id 1 that way. Download config also is prone to errors with SIS (does not enable SIS with that remote all the time).

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: johanr on July 07, 2009, 11:19:06 pm
Try to reset the devices with a z-wave remote before inclusion. Were they deployed in another network?
No, these are new units. I am using same type of devices in other places so they are compatible at least.
Reset via remote?

Quote
you should see it in the node list. It is written to the log (36) at startup.

Ok, I shall look for No1 then, can't remember seeing that though..

Quote
But as it does not even blink faster in your case, I'd assume the node info frame does not get sent from the plugs if they are still included in another network.
But you can always try to exclude it with the "remove node" command in 0810, then do a reset of the controller (up and then up till it lits in all three colors), then add it again with the "add node" command. I prefer "add node" instead of "download config". The usb dongle stays at node id 1 that way. Download config also is prone to errors with SIS (does not enable SIS with that remote all the time).
Ok, all these commands. Is it correct to assume that I can send these commands from webadmin. Since I do not use 0810, from what version of your driver is this working?

The node Id info, ok. Here it gets interesting. I did this on the tricklestar beleiving I was excluding..
press until green, then quick press at the Lower button. Then Include action on the device and it locked it instantly..(!)
Then tried including again and it failed =/

Went and reloaded the router fearing that I has removed all my lights or some of them but they where still in there.. strange..
 this makes me even more certain that the tricklestar is no longer in my excisting zwave network and it has somehow lost the config while not being used(also strange)


Ok, one step ahead at least.
I made quick reload and looked in the log more closely now when I knew what to look for.
It finds Node1 and that it is a controller, so that part is ok I guess. But it also finds the new nodes and here is where it gets interesting.
36      07/07/09 23:24:54.819           Got reply to FUNC_ID_ZW_GET_NODE_PROTOCOL_INFO: <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:54.819           Invalid generic class (0), ignoring device <0xb78ecb90>
40      07/07/09 23:24:54.916           Sending job 0x80a67d0 (cb 0) - 0x1 0x4 0x0 0x41 0xf 0xb5 (###A##) <0xb78ecb90>
41      07/07/09 23:24:54.917           ACK RECEIVED <0xb78ecb90>
41      07/07/09 23:24:54.919           0x1 0x9 0x1 0x41 0x0 0x0 0x0 0x3 0x0 0x0 0xb5 (###A#######) <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:54.919           Got reply to FUNC_ID_ZW_GET_NODE_PROTOCOL_INFO: <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:54.919           Invalid generic class (0), ignoring device <0xb78ecb90>
40      07/07/09 23:24:55.016           Sending job 0x80a69f0 (cb 0) - 0x1 0x4 0x0 0x41 0x10 0xaa (###A##) <0xb78ecb90>
41      07/07/09 23:24:55.044           ACK RECEIVED <0xb78ecb90>
41      07/07/09 23:24:55.044           0x1 0x9 0x1 0x41 0x0 0x0 0x0 0x3 0x0 0x0 0xb5 (###A#######) <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:55.044           Got reply to FUNC_ID_ZW_GET_NODE_PROTOCOL_INFO: <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:55.044           Invalid generic class (0), ignoring device <0xb78ecb90>
36      07/07/09 23:24:55.045           Finished building node list: <0xb78ecb90>

Ok, they may be flty off course but two of them?
 I bought all my switches and dimmers at the same time so presumably they should be from the same batch and the others are working flawlessly, although they where included when all the others where added.

You find what's wrong by reading the above message?

-johan

Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: johanr on July 09, 2009, 12:28:39 pm
Wondering.
Does a reset of the tricklestar "delete" all my current lights?
-johan
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: johanr on July 09, 2009, 03:04:27 pm
yes it does(I assumed so)

Now I have made a reset of the tricklestar and to make it short.. Included all the devices again. Now the watering valves are included and I now have watering working =)

I really hope I don't have to do this procedure again next time when adding the remaining switches and dimmers.
 :-\

-johan
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on July 09, 2009, 03:23:45 pm
hmm, in fact the inclusion process is the weak point with z-wave.. And there is not much we can do from the zwapi side..

nice that it works for you now.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: johanr on July 10, 2009, 12:06:56 am
Indeed it seem to be. Would be nice to get rid of the tricklestar I actually think that one has caused most of my issues with the zwave network..

Anyways I really appreciate your help!

I have started an Eljo connect page with the eljo pucks I've tested. It's just a start, not even good looking but what the heck, just so anyone can see that it is indeed working just fine.

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Eljo_Connect

-johan

Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on July 10, 2009, 12:12:45 am
yes, i also encountered issues with the tricklestar remote. I'm just testing the Popp remote switch. It can also work as inclusion remote. I wish the ZTH200 would have a more decent z-wave chip, supporting SIS. Otherwise it is really a good remote.

br, Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on May 04, 2010, 09:21:58 pm
I've seen "lockups" for this remote, too. It always went to "red" when trying to include devices.

I'm having this (again) right now. Before I used to reset the tricklestar, then download configuration and all my nodes were gone, had to re-include all of them one by one (and there are many).

In the procedure Hari mentions above, using "add node" instead of "download config" after resetting the remote, are the nodes deleted as well?

If that's the case, is there another way to unlock the remote without loosing all the nodes?

thanks!
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on May 05, 2010, 05:19:49 pm
yeah, make sure that the dongle is the master (node 1) not the remote. You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

br Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: totallymaxed on May 06, 2010, 11:45:32 am
yes, i also encountered issues with the tricklestar remote. I'm just testing the Popp remote switch. It can also work as inclusion remote. I wish the ZTH200 would have a more decent z-wave chip, supporting SIS. Otherwise it is really a good remote.

br, Hari

We are testing the new MK-Honeywell Astral ZWave products and as part of those tests we are testing their ZWave remote (LRC14U). This unit so far has worked very well indeed and it is SIS compatible too. MK also have a single-gang wireless switch which can be used for inclusion (like the Popp) and is SIS compatible too... we have not tested SIS mode on this switch yet though.

Astral is nicely engineered but rather expensive so it may not suit everyone's budget though.

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on May 06, 2010, 02:35:59 pm
yeah, make sure that the dongle is the master (node 1) not the remote. You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

br Hari

Fantastic news Hari, the dongle is the master so it should be ok and save me lots of time.
You make my day  :)
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on May 09, 2010, 06:59:36 pm
Hi Hari,

You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

Would you mind sharing the exact procedure for this? I'm having two problems:

Any suggestion?
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on July 19, 2010, 01:19:13 pm
Hi Hari,

You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

Would you mind sharing the exact procedure for this?

Quick bump on this one, as I still haven't found how to remove a zwave device (removing the lmce device won't remove it from the zwave routing table). What is the right sequence to follow here?

thanks in advance!
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on July 19, 2010, 02:15:19 pm
the Z-Wave device implements Add Node and Remove Node commands.

br Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on July 19, 2010, 02:57:30 pm
the Z-Wave device implements Add Node and Remove Node commands.

THanks Hari, yes I go to the master Z-wave device, I use the "send command to device" and select "Remove Node".

The parameters are:

Which parameter should I use? What I need to remove is the tricklestar remote, which is device 2.
I have tried entering "2" in parameters 39 / 48 but the device remains there.

Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: hari on July 19, 2010, 03:22:35 pm
you cannot specify a node id, you need to do the "copy controller" on the tricklestar (afaik 1x up, 4x down [quick]), better consult the manual)

br Hari
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on July 19, 2010, 03:30:41 pm
you need to do the "copy controller" on the tricklestar

got it! Now this might still be tricky, because the remote appears twice: I tried to add it again not noticing it had not been removed completely so now I have two instances with two different zwave ID.

And I guess there is no way to remove a device which doesn't (physically) exist any more.

Anyway, thanks Hari, that answers the question!
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: caiman on July 21, 2010, 05:34:53 pm
I must be doing something wrong... I did the following:
The logs show the remove operation was successful, but I still see two "Zwave controller" devices under the main zwave device (one with id 2, one with id 26).
Moreover, most of my devices have now taken a new pluto ID and their name was reset to the generic names (and of course they disappeared from all scenarios, etc).

I am still at loss about what to do when this remote hangs (often) apart from reconfiguring the whole network. How do I delete a device in pluto when it doesn't exist physically any more, or has been reset?
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: donpaul on July 31, 2010, 06:50:03 pm
yeah, make sure that the dongle is the master (node 1) not the remote. You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

br Hari

Hari, what is the proper procedure to make sure the dongle is the master? When I add the tricklestar remote by following the wiki (hold up, 1 up - then send command: download), it takes the master spot and moves the dongle down to 2. When I follow the tricklestar procedure for making the remote a secondary (hold up - then 4 up), the dongle stays 1 and the remote is 2 - BUT I am not able to add lights using the tricklestar remote. How did you make it work.

(I will update the wiki once I get this figured out).
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: totallymaxed on July 31, 2010, 09:15:55 pm
yeah, make sure that the dongle is the master (node 1) not the remote. You can then remove the remote, reset it, and add it again without loosing the network information.

br Hari

Hari, what is the proper procedure to make sure the dongle is the master? When I add the tricklestar remote by following the wiki (hold up, 1 up - then send command: download), it takes the master spot and moves the dongle down to 2. When I follow the tricklestar procedure for making the remote a secondary (hold up - then 4 up), the dongle stays 1 and the remote is 2 - BUT I am not able to add lights using the tricklestar remote. How did you make it work.

(I will update the wiki once I get this figured out).

See the section on SUC/SIS mode - http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Zwave (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Zwave)

Follow the steps carefully (especially the 'reload' after you have used the 'Reset' command). The procedure described works...we have tested it in excess of 75 times now and we have used it live on a very large Zwave install last week (40 Zwave nodes in total).

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: donpaul on July 31, 2010, 10:03:05 pm
It worked when I did the copy mode (hold up, 4 up).
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: donpaul on July 31, 2010, 11:38:55 pm
Can someone verify if this is the preferred procedure:

   1. First select 'Add node' from the 'Send to this device the command' drop-down menu and click send (there is no need to fill in any values in this screen).
   2. Next put the remote in configuration mode, then press and hold up until the LED flashes green, then press up four times. The LED will begin flashing green. Once added, the remote LED should start flashing faster then go steady green indicating success. If it goes red then reset the remote (hold up til green, then hold up 10 seconds until 3 color LED), and redo step 1-2.
Title: Re: zwave tricklestar include problem
Post by: totallymaxed on August 01, 2010, 10:21:49 am
Can someone verify if this is the preferred procedure:

   1. First select 'Add node' from the 'Send to this device the command' drop-down menu and click send (there is no need to fill in any values in this screen).
   2. Next put the remote in configuration mode, then press and hold up until the LED flashes green, then press up four times. The LED will begin flashing green. Once added, the remote LED should start flashing faster then go steady green indicating success. If it goes red then reset the remote (hold up til green, then hold up 10 seconds until 3 color LED), and redo step 1-2.


Yep thats correct.

Andrew