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General => Users => Topic started by: totallymaxed on July 01, 2009, 01:48:37 am

Title: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 01, 2009, 01:48:37 am
Hi,

Together with niz23 we have been testing adding vdpau support to MythTV to allow it to exploit hardware acceleration of HD content playback in MythTV. Today we have successfully tested a Core running a AMD 4800+ processor with an nVidia 9400GT card and an MD based on the Zotac ATOM 330 / nVidia Ion motherboard with a range of programming from the BBC HD channel on the UK 's Freesat service. The BBC HD channel is broadcast in h.264 format at 1080i and we have successfully watched and recorded 4-5 hours of shows on both the Core and the MD with glassy smooth playback on both. On the the Core we see about 15-17% CPU utilisation and on the ATOm board we see around 25%. In both cases the playback is the smoothest we have ever seen and we are totally blown away by it.

Here is the url to the patched MythTV with vdpau (0804, 0810 & 0904 versions are available here)  http://avenard.com/media/Ubuntu_Repository/Ubuntu_Repository.html

***Be aware this patch will only work if you have nVidia hardware in the 8000 and above range...and will almost certainly break systems with other graphics cards***

More later.

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: darrenmason on July 01, 2009, 04:36:30 am
Very impressive guys. Well Done.
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: chriss on July 01, 2009, 10:34:52 am
Wow, great work and impressive results!
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: sp00nhead on July 01, 2009, 01:16:02 pm
Nice work
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: geekyhawkes on July 01, 2009, 01:26:03 pm
Good work, now if only there was a patch so my mrs could appreciate the difference between SD and HD content!
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: niz23 on July 01, 2009, 01:35:28 pm
So far it seem to work fine.

One thing I have noticed is that vdpau seem to need a good quality mpeg streams.
Have a dvb-t channel at my place with only 30% signal quality. Sometimes myth-frontend lock up for 5-6s.

As totallymaxed mentioned. Do not install this mythtv version unless you have a 8xxx or 9xxx class nVidia GPU.
According to the guy that wrote the patches later versions of the code check if your system is vdpau enabled.

I have not tested if that is the case.

/niz23
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 01, 2009, 03:23:10 pm
Good work, now if only there was a patch so my mrs could appreciate the difference between SD and HD content!

I have to say that when you look at them side by side there is a pretty impressive difference. Here in the UK if you add DVB-S to your system of course you get a sprinkling of HD channels anyway and so the 'cost' of using HD is really negligible if your TV's are already HD ready.

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: geekyhawkes on July 01, 2009, 05:32:00 pm
Andrew;

out of interest which DVB-S are you using to get Freesat in the UK?  Im thinking this could be a nice addition to my setup as I would have the Kworld twin tuner for most recordings / MD and then the DVB--S for BBC HD and the other free to air channels
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 01, 2009, 06:03:13 pm
Andrew;

out of interest which DVB-S are you using to get Freesat in the UK?  Im thinking this could be a nice addition to my setup as I would have the Kworld twin tuner for most recordings / MD and then the DVB--S for BBC HD and the other free to air channels

We use a range of DVB-S tuners but the ones we are testing Myth & Freesat HD with are DVBWorld HD-2104's. See my wiki page on this tuner here; http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/DVBworld_HD-2104-USB-S2 (http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/DVBworld_HD-2104-USB-S2)

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: geekyhawkes on July 01, 2009, 06:33:16 pm
Thanks.  I am assuming this will be supported by your updated V4l package that includes Kworld USB support in 810?  Looks a nice solution but bloody difficult to find anyone that stocks it (uk wise).  I did find one website that offered me 1000 of them (albeit at 36USD ea)!
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 01, 2009, 06:50:07 pm
Thanks.  I am assuming this will be supported by your updated V4l package that includes Kworld USB support in 810?  Looks a nice solution actually and sensibly priced for HD capable DVB-S

If we build an 0810 v4l package then it should be available in the Beta's. the big advantage of the 2104 is that it has its own power supply and therefore puts no load on the Core's power supply whatsoever...this is important with DVB-S as multiple cards can draw considerable amounts of power if in a PCI slot or powered from the USB bus.

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: colinjones on July 02, 2009, 10:06:41 am
Andrew - can I ask a fairly obvious question? Why MythTV, not VDR? I thought both CHT and Niz23 both used VDR exclusively?

Also, I think, from the nVidia documentation, that even 7000 series _integrated_ chipsets _with_ the PV feature will also support VDPAU, such as the 7050PV.
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 02, 2009, 05:45:27 pm
Andrew - can I ask a fairly obvious question? Why MythTV, not VDR? I thought both CHT and Niz23 both used VDR exclusively?

Also, I think, from the nVidia documentation, that even 7000 series _integrated_ chipsets _with_ the PV feature will also support VDPAU, such as the 7050PV.

Hi Colin,

Well since last Friday we have been running some tests on MythTV 0.21 (the current stable version available for 8.10/9.04)...initially this was just out of interest to compare how it handled 'weak' or disrupted signals from DVB-S...as part of our prep for 0810. However once we go it installed we very quickly realised how far MythTv has come since we last looked at it (probably 3'ish years ago now!). What we discovered was Myth has evolved to have;

- Full Multiplex recording (the original reason why we went with vdr)
- Very powerful and sophisticated recording timers that integrate really well with off-air EPG data
- A really well designed and easily skinnable OSD
- An equally well designed/skinnable EPG that uses all of the off-air EPG data (like 'Genre'...record all the 'Thrillers' automatically for me)
- A fully integrated MHEG interactive services engine...this means that all the UK off-air MHEG based broadcast services are now accessible to
- Excellent support for capture cards and configuration options to squeeze as much quality out of them as possible
- Excellent support for HD from DVB-S and support for the vdpau Nvidia api NOW.

So the upshot is that weare almost certainly going to transition as a company to MythTV in the very near future. All our vdr code and changes are in the svn I believe and will be part of 0810 Beta's but we will focus from now on MythTV and you will see in time any changes, fixes etc for Myth uploaded by us to the svn too.

I know this might seem a big change (and it is!) but when we weighed up all that MythTV can do now against vdr and the uncertain time we will wait for the 1.7x release...it really was an easy decision.

All the best

Andrew

PS I'm happy to discuss this in more detail here if people want to understand why we have made this decision
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: wierdbeard65 on July 02, 2009, 05:56:51 pm
Grrrrrr!

So, are you suggesting that those of us in the UK, about to go with 810 alpha (and starting the journey) are recommended to use Myth not VDR?

Initially, I'll be using a single PVR150 connected to my Sky STB, but as soon as everything is up and ruinning and the family are happy, I intend to add a couple of DVB-S cards and a Quad LNB (Or possibly DVB-T cards and an aerial - but that's another discussion).

I'm keen to have the most painless experience as possible ;)
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: colinjones on July 02, 2009, 10:40:06 pm
Andrew - can I ask a fairly obvious question? Why MythTV, not VDR? I thought both CHT and Niz23 both used VDR exclusively?

Also, I think, from the nVidia documentation, that even 7000 series _integrated_ chipsets _with_ the PV feature will also support VDPAU, such as the 7050PV.

Hi Colin,

Well since last Friday we have been running some tests on MythTV 0.21 (the current stable version available for 8.10/9.04)...initially this was just out of interest to compare how it handled 'weak' or disrupted signals from DVB-S...as part of our prep for 0810. However once we go it installed we very quickly realised how far MythTv has come since we last looked at it (probably 3'ish years ago now!). What we discovered was Myth has evolved to have;

- Full Multiplex recording (the original reason why we went with vdr)
- Very powerful and sophisticated recording timers that integrate really well with off-air EPG data
- A really well designed and easily skinnable OSD
- An equally well designed/skinnable EPG that uses all of the off-air EPG data (like 'Genre'...record all the 'Thrillers' automatically for me)
- A fully integrated MHEG interactive services engine...this means that all the UK off-air MHEG based broadcast services are now accessible to
- Excellent support for capture cards and configuration options to squeeze as much quality out of them as possible
- Excellent support for HD from DVB-S and support for the vdpau Nvidia api NOW.

So the upshot is that weare almost certainly going to transition as a company to MythTV in the very near future. All our vdr code and changes are in the svn I believe and will be part of 0810 Beta's but we will focus from now on MythTV and you will see in time any changes, fixes etc for Myth uploaded by us to the svn too.

I know this might seem a big change (and it is!) but when we weighed up all that MythTV can do now against vdr and the uncertain time we will wait for the 1.7x release...it really was an easy decision.

All the best

Andrew

PS I'm happy to discuss this in more detail here if people want to understand why we have made this decision

Wow - that is big!!! Well I guess then its time for me to head that way as well. The main issues I had with MythTV (and I only really tried it twice, so harly a fair run, and never really got it working!) was the initial setup config was really confusing to me, and the interface was so obviously different from LMCE's GUI. I know the latter was a concern to you in the past, as well. What is your position now, and do you intend addressing that at all, can it be addressed, and how much work is involved, do you think?
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 03, 2009, 01:00:15 am
Andrew - can I ask a fairly obvious question? Why MythTV, not VDR? I thought both CHT and Niz23 both used VDR exclusively?

Also, I think, from the nVidia documentation, that even 7000 series _integrated_ chipsets _with_ the PV feature will also support VDPAU, such as the 7050PV.

Hi Colin,

Well since last Friday we have been running some tests on MythTV 0.21 (the current stable version available for 8.10/9.04)...initially this was just out of interest to compare how it handled 'weak' or disrupted signals from DVB-S...as part of our prep for 0810. However once we go it installed we very quickly realised how far MythTv has come since we last looked at it (probably 3'ish years ago now!). What we discovered was Myth has evolved to have;

- Full Multiplex recording (the original reason why we went with vdr)
- Very powerful and sophisticated recording timers that integrate really well with off-air EPG data
- A really well designed and easily skinnable OSD
- An equally well designed/skinnable EPG that uses all of the off-air EPG data (like 'Genre'...record all the 'Thrillers' automatically for me)
- A fully integrated MHEG interactive services engine...this means that all the UK off-air MHEG based broadcast services are now accessible to
- Excellent support for capture cards and configuration options to squeeze as much quality out of them as possible
- Excellent support for HD from DVB-S and support for the vdpau Nvidia api NOW.

So the upshot is that weare almost certainly going to transition as a company to MythTV in the very near future. All our vdr code and changes are in the svn I believe and will be part of 0810 Beta's but we will focus from now on MythTV and you will see in time any changes, fixes etc for Myth uploaded by us to the svn too.

I know this might seem a big change (and it is!) but when we weighed up all that MythTV can do now against vdr and the uncertain time we will wait for the 1.7x release...it really was an easy decision.

All the best

Andrew

PS I'm happy to discuss this in more detail here if people want to understand why we have made this decision

Wow - that is big!!! Well I guess then its time for me to head that way as well. The main issues I had with MythTV (and I only really tried it twice, so harly a fair run, and never really got it working!) was the initial setup config was really confusing to me, and the interface was so obviously different from LinuxMCE's GUI. I know the latter was a concern to you in the past, as well. What is your position now, and do you intend addressing that at all, can it be addressed, and how much work is involved, do you think?

Well I think there will always be a 'mismatch' between the Orbiter and various apps that are integrated with it...its kind of innevitable unless you bring all the functionality directly into the Orbiter...and  I really cant see that either happening or being possible with the Orbiter we have today (my personal opinion...others may strongly disagree with that). So in my oprinion there is likely to always be some kind of sense of 'transition' when you leave the Orbiter and arrive in one of the 'embedded' apps. So we just take a pragmatic view on that and accept that fact.... and work towards minimising that ransition while still exploiting as much of the 'embedded' apps capabilities as possible. With Myth you have a very powerful ability to reshape and redesign all of the UI using XML...this is really powerful I have to say and does not require using any special tools. So you have the menu system, the OSD (seen during live TV or recorded TV playback) and the EPG. By learning the XML markup needed to redesign the 3 areas you can have pretty deep control of how MythTV interacts with users and what the visual style of the UI is too.

Putting the customisability aspects aside for a moment I have to say that the SD and especially the HD picture quality is truly amazing...no one has failed to be impressed by this (and believe me this is a very 'jaded' audience here who have 'seen it all before'...they are very hard to impress). Compairing HD from a UK Freesat STB and the same channel from MythTV it was 100% impossible for anyone to say which was which...the only give away was that in MythTV the BBC MHEG based interactive service outperformed the STB by a factor of 6-8 times (this was revelation after using STB's I can tell you!)

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: colinjones on July 03, 2009, 02:21:35 am
That's all very interesting news, good to hear.

On the 'inevitability' angle, I think that is a matter of opinion. For instance, it is easy to forget that Xine is just another of those "embedded apps" and this is completely transparent and appears to be completely a part of the Orbiter. This, of course, is achieved by using the library implementation of Xine rather than the Xine GUI application, and so you can show as much or as little as you wish allowing you to wrap it completely into the UI... note, without having to bring it into the Orbiter.

Theoretically, doing the same with either VDR or Myth is entirely possible if those respective projects also built "lib" implementations of their projects rather than just complete applications with UIs. The drive for the Xine project to do so is obvious, but for Myth I guess its not really a big issue for them so unlikely to happen!

Will have to work towards switching to Myth!
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 03, 2009, 12:02:15 pm
That's all very interesting news, good to hear.

On the 'inevitability' angle, I think that is a matter of opinion. For instance, it is easy to forget that Xine is just another of those "embedded apps" and this is completely transparent and appears to be completely a part of the Orbiter. This, of course, is achieved by using the library implementation of Xine rather than the Xine GUI application, and so you can show as much or as little as you wish allowing you to wrap it completely into the UI... note, without having to bring it into the Orbiter.

Theoretically, doing the same with either VDR or Myth is entirely possible if those respective projects also built "lib" implementations of their projects rather than just complete applications with UIs. The drive for the Xine project to do so is obvious, but for Myth I guess its not really a big issue for them so unlikely to happen!

Will have to work towards switching to Myth!

Colin the point I was making was not to do with Xine at all...of course I understand how this software is structured ;-)... the issue is how do you deliver an all encompassing and consistent UI across all of the underlying functionality. I agree with Thom that ideally the Orbiters UI would span all of the functionality we integrate and would have a richer toolset of UI elements to allow this to be achieved. But the reality is thats a big piece of code to change/enhance and it needs ro be done right as well as the Orbiter is a critical element of the whole system.

In the meantime we plan to make some new Myth Themes so that when a user does transition into TV from the Orbiter the experience inside Myth is closer visually to that of the Orbiter.

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: posde on July 03, 2009, 04:03:52 pm
Andrew,

what is your timetable to have DVB-S and DVB-T cards be PnP for Myth?
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 03, 2009, 04:10:12 pm
Andrew,

what is your timetable to have DVB-S and DVB-T cards be PnP for Myth?

We're looking at PnP for the DVB-S2 USB2104 & Kworld 399U DVB-T... in the next few weeks is a rough guess.

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: colinjones on July 03, 2009, 11:40:56 pm
In the meantime we plan to make some new Myth Themes so that when a user does transition into TV from the Orbiter the experience inside Myth is closer visually to that of the Orbiter.


ooo, cool! Thanks!
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: krys on July 23, 2009, 03:47:26 pm
hey all,
is there any way to see if my mythTV profile is using vdpau? I set everything up the best I could using the instructions on the avenard page, but my CPU is pegged when watching a 720p movie and stuttering, and at about 80% when watching SD. I assume this means vdpau is not being used, but have no idea why. Can anyone post, line by line what their mythTV profile looks like? My mythTV screen didnt seem to have the exact same options that the Avenard page did, but they were close enough that I assumed them to be correct.

Also, I noticed that mythTV seemed to be using mplayer to play the movies (watched it in top) is this whats supposed to happen?
Thanks,
-krys
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 23, 2009, 05:06:41 pm
hey all,
is there any way to see if my mythTV profile is using vdpau? I set everything up the best I could using the instructions on the avenard page, but my CPU is pegged when watching a 720p movie and stuttering, and at about 80% when watching SD. I assume this means vdpau is not being used, but have no idea why. Can anyone post, line by line what their mythTV profile looks like? My mythTV screen didnt seem to have the exact same options that the Avenard page did, but they were close enough that I assumed them to be correct.

Also, I noticed that mythTV seemed to be using mplayer to play the movies (watched it in top) is this whats supposed to happen?
Thanks,
-krys

Well I think I can confirm its not working ;-)

The avenard instructions are what we used to figure this out the first time...they do work...but its easy to make a mistake and then MythTV will not take advantage of vdpau. Double check your MythTV profile to make sure you have that setup as per the avenard instructions. We have been running tests with the BBC HD channel which is broadcast in 1080i here on DVB-S and we have recorded and 'watched' (ie we have an HD enabled MD running in our test area 24-7) 100's of hours of HD content over the last several weeks and we see no stutter, tearing or other visual artifacts and in 'side-by'side' comparison with an 1080i HD STB. You should see less that 25% CPU utilisation in our experience.

See here for more info on setting up MythTV + vdpau http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU (http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU)

Our installations are using MythTV_Player for playback by the way.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: krys on July 23, 2009, 05:46:59 pm
One more question, have you tried all of this from a MD or are you just using a core/hybrid? I have been working from a MD and MythTV backend crashes everytime I go to mythTv from the MD. After I reset the backend everything appears to be fine. Is this because my MD is running the MythTV version from avenard and my core is running the LMCE mythTV version? Should I upgrade the core using the avenard repo, it doesnt have a Nvidia card... but its headless so I dont need to watch videos on it.
-Krys
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: totallymaxed on July 23, 2009, 07:22:54 pm
One more question, have you tried all of this from a MD or are you just using a core/hybrid? I have been working from a MD and MythTV backend crashes everytime I go to mythTv from the MD. After I reset the backend everything appears to be fine. Is this because my MD is running the MythTV version from avenard and my core is running the LinuxMCE mythTV version? Should I upgrade the core using the avenard repo, it doesnt have a Nvidia card... but its headless so I dont need to watch videos on it.
-Krys

All of out HD testing is done on MD's under alpha 0810. You should make sure that the backend and the frontends are all running the same MythTV version (the backend does not necessarily need to be installed from avenard though...and definitely should not be if you do not have nVidia in your Core)

Andrew
Title: Re: MythTV + vdpau now playing 1080i HD content well in 0810 alpha
Post by: Viking on July 24, 2009, 01:41:13 pm
HI,

I am in the middle of testing MythTV with VDPAU, but I am quite sure that VDPAU is activated as CPU usage went down. But I am only testing SD-TV at the moment. HD TV is next.

I changed the wiki to reflect what I have done to get it working.

Have fun testing it :
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/MythTV#EXPERIMENTAL:_Update_MythTV_to_VDPAU_version_on_0810

Greetings
Viking