LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 01:59:53 pm

Title: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 01:59:53 pm
I've been trying to find a projector equipped with RS232 for my main media room
to no avail. Most of the projectors I've found so far are equipped with a service port.
It seems that the industry is moving away from RS232 and opting to implement
RJ45. Shouldn't we move in that direction as well?

Your Thoughts.


John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: posde on April 04, 2009, 02:01:51 pm
Most of the so called service ports can be used to control the devices.

And we already are able to control stuff using TCP/IP
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 02:14:20 pm
Most of the so called service ports can be used to control the devices.

And we already are able to control stuff using TCP/IP

posde,

Again, most service ports can be used for that purpose but not all.
My point is, should we drop RS232 altogether and move towards RJ45 ?

John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: totallymaxed on April 04, 2009, 03:06:08 pm
Most of the so called service ports can be used to control the devices.

And we already are able to control stuff using TCP/IP

posde,

Again, most service ports can be used for that purpose but not all.
My point is, should we drop RS232 altogether and move towards RJ45 ?

John.

Hmmm... for the forseable future there will many devices that will continue to support rs232 and of course many 'legacy' devices too. If there is a specific protocol/physical interface that you feel is needed then suggest it...or even better just go and implement it yourself.

We need to add support for new protocols/interfaces...not remove widely used ones!

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: alx9r on April 04, 2009, 05:12:37 pm
We need to add support for new protocols/interfaces...not remove widely used ones!

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: phenigma on April 04, 2009, 07:15:02 pm
I've been trying to find a projector equipped with RS232 for my main media room
to no avail. Most of the projectors I've found so far are equipped with a service port.
It seems that the industry is moving away from RS232 and opting to implement
RJ45. Shouldn't we move in that direction as well?

Your Thoughts.


John.

For clarification RS232 is a communication protocol.  RJ45 is a cable connector (used for ethernet cat5 cabling for example) and has nothing itself to do with the communications protocols.  I have a UPS which has an RJ45 port with an adaptor to 9pin d-sub to connect to my pcs serial port which uses the RS232 protocol.  RS232 and RJ45 cannot be compared.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: tschak909 on April 04, 2009, 07:46:23 pm
....

*bites-his-tongue-really-hard*

We have support for just about every single _standard interconnect_ that has some sort of published standard. Just because your projector is using a proprietary connector without published protocol specifications is not our problem. Get something with a published control protocol.

-Thom
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: totallymaxed on April 04, 2009, 08:03:01 pm
I've been trying to find a projector equipped with RS232 for my main media room
to no avail. Most of the projectors I've found so far are equipped with a service port.
It seems that the industry is moving away from RS232 and opting to implement
RJ45. Shouldn't we move in that direction as well?

Your Thoughts.


John.

For clarification RS232 is a communication protocol.  RJ45 is a cable connector (used for ethernet cat5 cabling for example) and has nothing itself to do with the communications protocols.  I have a UPS which has an RJ45 port with an adaptor to 9pin d-sub to connect to my pcs serial port which uses the RS232 protocol.  RS232 and RJ45 cannot be compared.

Sorry...thats not the point...

Andrew
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 08:16:02 pm
....

*bites-his-tongue-really-hard*

We have support for just about every single _standard interconnect_ that has some sort of published standard. Just because your projector is using a proprietary connector without published protocol specifications is not our problem. Get something with a published control protocol.

-Thom


Thom,

I am aware of that. However, wouldn't it be great if there were a unified protocol under which most or all devices would be covered.
I know, Wishful thinking.

John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: jimbodude on April 04, 2009, 08:18:52 pm
If you can't find a projector with RS232... you're not looking too hard...  Most projectors I've seen installed in presentation rooms are controlled over RS232.  Also, the projector running above my head right now is RS232.

No, RS232 support should not be "dropped" - that would be very dumb... why would we take a step backwards? we're trying to support MORE hardware not less...  Lots of people are using RS232 successfully - including me.  Lots of devices manufactured today can be controlled by RS232... just because the projector you want isn't, doesn't mean that the receivers, televisions, cable boxes, and other special devices that other people have don't use it... you need to look at the bigger picture before you suggest dropping a feature that isn't useful to you.

Also, TCP/IP over Ethernet (the stuff that probably comes out of this RJ45 jack you're talking about) is supported... so is USB...
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_A/V_equipment_with_RS232/USB/Ethernet
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 08:31:11 pm
If you can't find a projector with RS232... you're not looking too hard...  Most projectors I've seen installed in presentation rooms are controlled over RS232.  Also, the projector running above my head right now is RS232.

No, RS232 support should not be "dropped" - that would be very dumb... why would we take a step backwards? we're trying to support MORE hardware not less...  Lots of people are using RS232 successfully - including me.  Lots of devices manufactured today can be controlled by RS232... just because the projector you want isn't, doesn't mean that the receivers, televisions, cable boxes, and other special devices that other people have don't use it... you need to look at the bigger picture before you suggest dropping a feature that isn't useful to you.

Also, TCP/IP over Ethernet (the stuff that probably comes out of this RJ45 jack you're talking about) is supported... so is USB...
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_A/V_equipment_with_RS232/USB/Ethernet

I am looking at the bigger picture. Look around, most New Mobos come without these ports, YES, I know with things like the GC100 we can still interface
with our RS232 equipped devices. Also I am not suggesting that we DROP RS232. That would be DUMD indeed. I'm just saying that RS232 is being Phased out.
Should we follow that trend as well ?

John.


P.S. Which Projector are you running ?

Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 04, 2009, 08:38:35 pm
I've been trying to find a projector equipped with RS232 for my main media room
to no avail. Most of the projectors I've found so far are equipped with a service port.
It seems that the industry is moving away from RS232 and opting to implement
RJ45. Shouldn't we move in that direction as well?

Your Thoughts.


John.

For clarification RS232 is a communication protocol.  RJ45 is a cable connector (used for ethernet cat5 cabling for example) and has nothing itself to do with the communications protocols.  I have a UPS which has an RJ45 port with an adaptor to 9pin d-sub to connect to my pcs serial port which uses the RS232 protocol.  RS232 and RJ45 cannot be compared.


These terms are interchangeable these days..... RJ45/Ethernet.............  RS232/Com Port............

That was the point.

John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: tschak909 on April 04, 2009, 08:39:48 pm
Not really, no.

You have to read your manual to be sure.

-Thom
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: phenigma on April 04, 2009, 10:24:35 pm

These terms are interchangeable these days..... RJ45/Ethernet.............  RS232/Com Port............

That was the point.

John.

I understand your point but I work, and have worked, with commercial and industrial automation devices which use RJ45 ports and have absolutely nothing to do with Ethernet.

Jason
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: hari on April 05, 2009, 12:23:01 am
rs232 is _the_ standard protocol for HA control. We'll not drop it for decades.

There are plenty of projectors available with rs232.

br, Hari
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: colinjones on April 05, 2009, 02:43:02 am
[Moderator mode]

Guys, this thread is starting to "spiral"! Can everyone check their tone please? We need to stay on topic or simply let the thread die.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: colinjones on April 05, 2009, 02:54:10 am
[Member mode]

I would suggest that any move to remove support for a standard is misguided, for obvious reasons. RS232 will be around for a long time. The idea of "phasing out" is meaningless here - either we continue to support the standard because it will be around for a long time and is needed (which is what we will do), or we remove the standard from our supported set. One cannot "phase out" something like this because we are building systems that support a standard that is or isn't being used, we are not able to control what manufacturers use for communications. Thus manufacturers can "phase out" the standard if they wish, in the context of LMCE we cannot "phase out" anything. We either support it or do not, there is no process by which we can "phase out".

The crux of this thread appears to be the phasing out argument. Which conceptually doesn't make any sense unless you feel that adding new supported standards and leaving old ones in place is by implication phasing them out. Either way, the argument appears to be specious, and so the thread should stop here with the statement that 232 needs to continue, and new standards should be added. Any further discussion would appear to be "troll"ing....
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: bulek on April 05, 2009, 10:34:53 am
....

*bites-his-tongue-really-hard*

We have support for just about every single _standard interconnect_ that has some sort of published standard. Just because your projector is using a proprietary connector without published protocol specifications is not our problem. Get something with a published control protocol.

-Thom


Thom,

I am aware of that. However, wouldn't it be great if there were a unified protocol under which most or all devices would be covered.
I know, Wishful thinking.

John.

Hi,

maybe you won't believe, but such thing already exists. It's called DCE... ;-)
Others already said the point. System allows you to add support for any rs232 or Ethernet device you can imagine (if you know it's protocol)...

Regards,

Bulek.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 05, 2009, 10:52:27 am
....

*bites-his-tongue-really-hard*

We have support for just about every single _standard interconnect_ that has some sort of published standard. Just because your projector is using a proprietary connector without published protocol specifications is not our problem. Get something with a published control protocol.

-Thom


Thom,

I am aware of that. However, wouldn't it be great if there were a unified protocol under which most or all devices would be covered.
I know, Wishful thinking.

John.

Hi,

maybe you won't believe, but such thing already exists. It's called DCE... ;-)
Others already said the point. System allows you to add support for any rs232 or Ethernet device you can imagine (if you know it's protocol)...

Regards,

Bulek.



bulek,

Yes I have read about DCE (Distributed Computer Environment). I'll do some more research about it.

John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: qball4 on April 05, 2009, 12:34:22 pm
lmce3000,

I think you might want to read http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Developers_Guide (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Developers_Guide); it is an excellent introduction to the underlying technical aspects of LMCE. Sections 2 and 3 should specifically help with your research.

:Matt
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: marrandy on April 05, 2009, 03:34:57 pm

Also I am not suggesting that we DROP RS232. That would be DUMD indeed. I'm just saying that RS232 is being Phased out.
Should we follow that trend as well ?

John.


That is exactly what you suggested...in your own words...

"My point is, should we drop RS232 altogether and move towards RJ45 ?"

http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=7811.msg50671#msg50671
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 05, 2009, 04:11:15 pm

Also I am not suggesting that we DROP RS232. That would be DUMD indeed. I'm just saying that RS232 is being Phased out.
Should we follow that trend as well ?

John.


That is exactly what you suggested...in your own words...



"My point is, should we drop RS232 altogether and move towards RJ45 ?"

http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=7811.msg50671#msg50671


Dude! This is a question? I am not saying we should drop RS232....... This is an open ended question.  Read it carefully.


John.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: ivanp on April 05, 2009, 04:15:19 pm
Dude! This is a question? I am not saying we should drop RS232....... This is an open ended question.  Read it carefully.

Learn to qoute, its hard to read who are You replying to and what You are saying.

And Yes, YOu asked a question..But Your question was leaning towards affirmitive answers So basiclly, You anwsered Your own quesiton and just wanted aproval of anybody else.
RS232 is the most common interface for any HA equipment nad AV stuff. Dont conclude anything if You didnt research much.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: lmce3000 on April 05, 2009, 04:25:39 pm
Dude! This is a question? I am not saying we should drop RS232....... This is an open ended question.  Read it carefully.

Learn to qoute, its hard to read who are You replying to and what You are saying.

And Yes, YOu asked a question..But Your question was leaning towards affirmitive answers So basiclly, You anwsered Your own quesiton and just wanted aproval of anybody else.
RS232 is the most common interface for any HA equipment nad AV stuff. Dont conclude anything if You didnt research much.


Geez!!! I know how to quote. Busy here. Happy???
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: jondecker76 on April 05, 2009, 05:08:12 pm
I think you missed something above..

DCE (Data, Commands and Events) that was suggested above is the communications protocol of LMCE (developed and owned by Pluto). It abstracts the underlying protocol of the device you are trying to control. For example, if you send an ON command to a device, you don't need to worry about the protocol used to control the device, it will just happen automagically (if the device template is defined correctly and a driver has been written). Check out DCE in the wiki - its the backbone of LinuxMCE and understanding it is essential to anything you do in LMCE.
Title: Re: "Should RS232 Be Dropped In Favor Of Other Protocols"?
Post by: colinjones on April 05, 2009, 05:26:35 pm
This is going in circles, and I suspect trolling.

Thread locked for a few days.