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General => Feature requests & roadmap => Topic started by: nubuntu on January 03, 2009, 03:57:00 am

Title: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: nubuntu on January 03, 2009, 03:57:00 am
Is there any possibility that an archos internet media tablet could be used as an orbiter?
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: tschak909 on January 03, 2009, 05:15:26 am
what is the architecture?

-Thom
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: nubuntu on January 03, 2009, 08:51:08 am
Well as far as I can tell the user manual just says that its linux based and beyond that I have no idea.  Here's a link to its support page maybe you can tell better than I can.  Thanks for the quick response also!!! http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5/specs.html?country=global&lang=en (http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5/specs.html?country=global&lang=en)

Jaime
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: colinjones on January 03, 2009, 09:24:14 pm
Its an ARM 32 bit CPU
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: tschak909 on January 03, 2009, 10:14:24 pm
would have to see if an SDK is available, and if so, would need to see what windowing systems etc are available etc..

This would be a good exploration project for an interested hacker. The code is very cross platform, and at worst, a new rendering subclass would need to be made. We currently use SDL, so there is a possibility this could be done with moderate effort.

I do not have one of these devices, so I can't verify what would need to be done.

-Thom
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: totallymaxed on January 04, 2009, 02:42:11 pm
would have to see if an SDK is available, and if so, would need to see what windowing systems etc are available etc..

This would be a good exploration project for an interested hacker. The code is very cross platform, and at worst, a new rendering subclass would need to be made. We currently use SDL, so there is a possibility this could be done with moderate effort.

I do not have one of these devices, so I can't verify what would need to be done.

-Thom


Thom we'd be happy to 'sponsor' porting your Tablet Orbiter to other devices like the Archos. We'd 'gift' the hardware to whoever takes the work on. Maybe we should pull together a 'short list' of mobile and fixed touch based devices that with you verifying the spec looks right. Then anyone could join in by either acting as a sponsor or signing up as as the lead developer doing the port.

Something along these lines might accelerate getting more devices added without loading you up with all the work ;-)

What do you think?

Hope your feeling better today.

Andrew
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: tschak909 on January 04, 2009, 05:59:12 pm
Sounds fine to me.

The base for any port of orbiter to comfortably run is roughly:

* 192 megs of RAM.
* 120mhz CPU minimum, this is an apples/oranges comparison, but there has to be a floor.
* open enough OS to do the port with open enough windowing system
* Orbiter itself takes up about 128mb of flash, with orbiter and its supporting libraries. The operating system's footprint must also be considered.

Hopefully those can be good guidelines. Obviously a Linux based ARM device with X will be very easy to port, but a lot of these devices don't run X.

The good news is that anything that runs SDL will probably be okay with the current rendering classes, if not, a new set of rendering classes would have to be made, we currently have them for SDL and PocketFrog.

Any show-stoppers would be related to an unwillingness to present sufficient documentation to do the port, such things as:

* SDK
* video hardware
* networking hardware
* bootloader

not saying all those things are needed, but creative solutions might have to be developed, it's all in the course of hacking on a device.

-Thom
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: totallymaxed on January 04, 2009, 08:22:35 pm
Sounds fine to me.

The base for any port of orbiter to comfortably run is roughly:

* 192 megs of RAM.
* 120mhz CPU minimum, this is an apples/oranges comparison, but there has to be a floor.
* open enough OS to do the port with open enough windowing system
* Orbiter itself takes up about 128mb of flash, with orbiter and its supporting libraries. The operating system's footprint must also be considered.

Hopefully those can be good guidelines. Obviously a Linux based ARM device with X will be very easy to port, but a lot of these devices don't run X.

The good news is that anything that runs SDL will probably be okay with the current rendering classes, if not, a new set of rendering classes would have to be made, we currently have them for SDL and PocketFrog.

Any show-stoppers would be related to an unwillingness to present sufficient documentation to do the port, such things as:

* SDK
* video hardware
* networking hardware
* bootloader

not saying all those things are needed, but creative solutions might have to be developed, it's all in the course of hacking on a device.

-Thom


Ok sounds like we can pull together a list of candidate devices then... anyone with suggestions for devices that meet Thom's spec and with an interest in becoming a sponsor for that device please post a url to the device here. Anyone will to become the lead for porting to any of these devices please also post here.

We will then marry up sponsors & developers and get started ;-)

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: tschak909 on January 04, 2009, 08:48:45 pm
Let's try for this first one, a wall mount machine that can run linux.

I will try to make something that can resume from a static image to make bootup faster.

-Thom
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: JaseP on January 20, 2009, 09:15:29 am
The Archos media tablets are a lost cause,... Although they run Linux under the hood, they are locked in hardware (not unlike TiVo) and all attempts to get them to run native Linux programs compiled for them have been lackluster,...

I have two Generation 4, 604 WiFi's and will never buy another Archos product again... They are freeloaders off of open source... RUN, don't walk away from Archos...

PS - Too bad we can't prove that any of their proprietary stuff hooks into the Kernel,... I'd love to have them sued under violation of the GPL...

Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: freymann on January 20, 2009, 01:59:15 pm
The Archos media tablets are a lost cause,... Although they run Linux under the hood, they are locked in hardware (not unlike TiVo) and all attempts to get them to run native Linux programs compiled for them have been lackluster,...

I have two Generation 4, 604 WiFi's and will never buy another Archos product again... They are freeloaders off of open source... RUN, don't walk away from Archos...

 We have two Generation 4's here, and we love our Archos products. Ok, so you can't make them do anything but what they were intended for. Hmmm... Geee.... Good thing they do what they do so well then!

 Sorry, I don't agree with the "run away Archos" statement in a general context. If you solely mean don't bother to try and make them work with LMCE, that's fine, but as far as being a great product -- that they certainly are.
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: Zaerc on January 20, 2009, 03:23:19 pm
The Archos media tablets are a lost cause,... Although they run Linux under the hood, they are locked in hardware (not unlike TiVo) and all attempts to get them to run native Linux programs compiled for them have been lackluster,...

I have two Generation 4, 604 WiFi's and will never buy another Archos product again... They are freeloaders off of open source... RUN, don't walk away from Archos...

 We have two Generation 4's here, and we love our Archos products. Ok, so you can't make them do anything but what they were intended for. Hmmm... Geee.... Good thing they do what they do so well then!

 Sorry, I don't agree with the "run away Archos" statement in a general context. If you solely mean don't bother to try and make them work with LMCE, that's fine, but as far as being a great product -- that they certainly are.


In other words: useless proprietary crap freeloading off opensource, just like he said.

Maybe we should put up a wiki page so people will be aware of this.
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: JaseP on April 15, 2009, 03:59:13 am
I have another possibility here... They may be able to be used as orbiters running the web interface... However they do not have bluetooth, and so the follow-me function would not work. The also do not play streamed video. Later models have made the browser a separate firmware add-on purchase (when the units have wifi capability built in). Not the best orbiter set-up, but pass-able.

I also have a PepperPad 3 (which is broken, in terms that I have wiped it, installed my own preferred version of Linux and now not all the hardware works). Those are better Orbiter candidates.

I have just recieved my server and my media directors, So I am starting the  setup now... I will keep you up to date on progress, and how well the Archos 604 Wifis do as Orbiters.
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: skeptic on April 16, 2009, 07:34:09 pm
http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=12694
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: JaseP on May 01, 2009, 07:07:41 am
Been there, seen that link... Nothing new there... please move along...

Seriously, though,... The Archos hack is tempting, but useless in the long run. Too many people have upgraded their firmware beyond the point of the hack's usefullness, and for those who haven't... The hack is a temporary fix for a permanent problem... Pig-headed, and greedy executives. They fail to see the potential sales that would result from a truly open platform. In the USA, Walmart doesn't carry their crap anymore on the shelves.

To make Archos open up their devices, one would have to win the lottery,.. purchase a contrroling interest in Archos company stock and fire the B*tards who run the company like a bunch of tightly clenched posterior end sphincter muscles. If I win the state lottery, I'll let you know how it goes...
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 01, 2009, 09:39:47 am
Let's try for this first one, a wall mount machine that can run linux.
That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Preferably (for me) POE as well. Nice and chep would be good too  ;)

Is such hardware (readily) available yet? Thom, were you talking generally, or do you have a particular machine in mind?

Mobile orbiters are all very well, and neccessary, but when you have young kids that like to hide things under the sofa... I want some fixed devices in certain locations (by the front door, in the Kitchen etc). With the Star Trek skin as well, I can have my house looking like the Enterprise  ;D
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: totallymaxed on May 04, 2009, 01:21:57 pm
Let's try for this first one, a wall mount machine that can run linux.
That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Preferably (for me) POE as well. Nice and chep would be good too  ;)

Is such hardware (readily) available yet? Thom, were you talking generally, or do you have a particular machine in mind?

Mobile orbiters are all very well, and neccessary, but when you have young kids that like to hide things under the sofa... I want some fixed devices in certain locations (by the front door, in the Kitchen etc). With the Star Trek skin as well, I can have my house looking like the Enterprise  ;D

Well we're searching for the right hardware. That hardware will not be a commercial product like Archos etc. It will be a motherboard or motherboard/enclosure combination that has a hardware design that we feel is a good fit for LinuxMCE. Also one that has a reasonable product life span and will see hardware development over time.

We have not found this combination yet... but I am sure we will :-)

Andrew
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: dlewis on May 04, 2009, 02:01:20 pm
A PoE based MD will be tough to find, but that would be a great idea...
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 04, 2009, 02:09:50 pm
A PoE based MD will be tough to find, but that would be a great idea...
Personally, I'm not looking for a POE MD, just orbiter. This wouldn't need to drive a large / hi-res screen or provide sound, so POE MAY be possible ;-)
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: dlewis on May 04, 2009, 02:15:03 pm
I assume this would be an in-wall...
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 04, 2009, 02:38:32 pm
Yep - Not seen any POWiFi anyware yet  ;D ;)

As I said above, add the Star Trek skin and I can fool people into thinking they're on the Enterprise when they visit...!
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: dlewis on May 04, 2009, 02:41:18 pm
Nice facebook picture... lol
Title: Re: Archos Internet Media Tablet
Post by: totallymaxed on May 04, 2009, 06:29:51 pm
A PoE based MD will be tough to find, but that would be a great idea...

Well I'm not so sure about that some of the ARM based boards we've looked at would definitely be ok on POE...as would (just) in fact some of the Ion based motherboards.

Andrew