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General => Users => Topic started by: samuelmukoti on December 11, 2008, 05:17:02 am

Title: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: samuelmukoti on December 11, 2008, 05:17:02 am
Hi,

I  received my first Z-Wave equipment yesterday, and i'm so excited and ready to pimp my setup.  I've got lamp modules and PIR sensors for now, and of-course the USB control interface, i bought all the equipment from HomeSeer for the Euro market.

I went straight ahead and patched the Z-Wave driver buy installing the one from Hari's threads (don't quite remember the thread)

Now the setup wizards picks up the interface but cannot pickup any of the lamp modules etc, i understand you can pair using the master controller then download the devices info to LMCE using the same.  I believe i did ask someone in the forums and they told me LMCE is able to do it with out the control center, second option was to try the windows software and see how far i get with that too.. i obviously am trying to save a bit of money, i could surely purchase more motion sensors and light modules instead of buying a redundant remote control that i may only use once.

your input will be greatly appreciated

regards

Sam
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: caiman on December 11, 2008, 08:51:19 am
I may be wrong here, this is what I understood.

- If you have 8.10, you can run your zwave dongle in SIS mode, and then LMCE can include the zwave devices without a remote. If you have an inclusion remote like the tricklestar, it will allow you to include devices that are too far from your core.

- If you use an earlier version of the zwave driver, you need a zwave controller to include the devices (Hari, correct me here...). I used a ZTH200 and then downloaded the network info to LMCE using the "download configuration option"

- If you don't want to buy a remote, some windows software will indeed allow you to include devices using your dongle. This depends on the type of dongle too. It is the case for the seluxit software, that runs only with the seluxit dongle. But there are other packages around that can do it

Caiman
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: tschak909 on December 11, 2008, 03:15:36 pm
guys....guys....

Don't forget, there is also the Mi Casa Verde USB z-wave interface and inclusion controller:

http://shop.micasaverde.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110&products_id=151

-Thom
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hari on December 11, 2008, 03:57:40 pm
that inclusion button does not work for basic type controller. Also it won't work for devices needing SIS like ra-plus-w. I for my part recommend SIS mode.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: totallymaxed on December 11, 2008, 05:30:40 pm
that inclusion button does not work for basic type controller. Also it won't work for devices needing SIS like ra-plus-w. I for my part recommend SIS mode.

best regards,
Hari

I 100% agree with Hari... SIS mode is the only way to go once you have seen how easy it is to include your ZWave devices... they are automagically added to your Core as you include devices to your SIS enabled remote;

Search for the Tricklestar remote & USB Stick on the Wiki

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: tschak909 on December 11, 2008, 05:33:00 pm
True, but again, for basic installations where LMCE controls everything, and you don't want a remote, it works.

I do agree with SIS mode, though.

-Thom
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: samuelmukoti on December 13, 2008, 06:21:26 am
Thanks guys, that Z-Wave USB Dongle looks like exactly what i want. (http://shop.micasaverde.com)  Its a pitty i still have to go purchase more hardware before i can test/pair my Z-Wave equipment.  Tried various Windows software but no luck yet.

best regards,

Sam
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: totallymaxed on December 13, 2008, 10:27:22 am
Thanks guys, that Z-Wave USB Dongle looks like exactly what i want. (http://shop.micasaverde.com)  Its a pitty i still have to go purchase more hardware before i can test/pair my Z-Wave equipment.  Tried various Windows software but no luck yet.

best regards,

Sam

Sam,

I have added a new section to the ZWave page on the Wiki that takes you through step-by-step using the Tricklestar remote and SIS mode to include new devices into your ZWave network. This will give you a better idea of how this works in practice. See here;

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote)

If your not worried about SIS mode and therefore not being able to use the newer ZWave devices Hari mention earlier then I agree with Thom about the Micasaverde USB stick being a good choice.

Enjoy!

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: golgoj4 on December 13, 2008, 10:30:13 am
Thanks guys, that Z-Wave USB Dongle looks like exactly what i want. (http://shop.micasaverde.com)  Its a pitty i still have to go purchase more hardware before i can test/pair my Z-Wave equipment.  Tried various Windows software but no luck yet.

best regards,

Sam

Sam,

I have added a new section to the ZWave page on the Wiki that takes you through step-by-step using the Tricklestar remote and SIS mode to include new devices into your ZWave network. This will give you a better idea of how this works in practice. See here;

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote)

If your not worried about SIS mode and therefore not being able to use the newer ZWave devices Hari mention earlier then I agree with Thom about the Micasaverde USB stick being a good choice.

Enjoy!

All the best

Andrew

thx for the wiki add :)
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: samuelmukoti on December 14, 2008, 10:55:12 am
Thanks guys, that Z-Wave USB Dongle looks like exactly what i want. (http://shop.micasaverde.com)  Its a pitty i still have to go purchase more hardware before i can test/pair my Z-Wave equipment.  Tried various Windows software but no luck yet.

best regards,

Sam

Yes, thank you so much for the wiki update, sounding good!


Sam,

I have added a new section to the ZWave page on the Wiki that takes you through step-by-step using the Tricklestar remote and SIS mode to include new devices into your ZWave network. This will give you a better idea of how this works in practice. See here;

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote)

If your not worried about SIS mode and therefore not being able to use the newer ZWave devices Hari mention earlier then I agree with Thom about the Micasaverde USB stick being a good choice.

Enjoy!

All the best

Andrew

thx for the wiki add :)
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hkwilliamson on January 14, 2009, 12:36:59 am
Can anybody provide a pointer to a supplier for the US variant of the Tricklestar USB and remote? The European resellers (e.g. ZWave 4 U) only seem to carry the European variants.

Cheers,

Keith
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: posde on January 14, 2009, 08:49:19 am
The US provider of the Trickelstar is http://www.micasaverde.com (http://www.micasaverde.com) or the direct URL to the shop https://shop.micasaverde.com/index.php (https://shop.micasaverde.com/index.php)

EDIT: Added URL for the shop.

EDIT 2: I did not have my coffee. The above URL does not sell the Trickelstar but another USB Z-Wave stick compatible with lmce
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hkwilliamson on January 14, 2009, 05:21:39 pm
Yeah I had checked out the micasaverde site and ordered their USB dongle. It's on its way and I'll use it until I can run down a US version Tricklestar. Additionally, I sent an email direct to Tricklestar asking for a way to buy it. I'll report back when they respond.

Thx.
Title: Pairing Z-Wave devices with a Z-Wave Remote
Post by: Viking on January 18, 2009, 10:10:03 pm
Hi,

I have added a new section to the ZWave page on the Wiki that takes you through step-by-step using the Tricklestar remote and SIS mode to include new devices into your ZWave network. This will give you a better idea of how this works in practice. See here;

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Z-Wave#Manual_Setup_using_SIS_Mode_with_the_Tricklestar_Remote)

EDIT: I am using the new 0.0.2 version of hari's ZWave program and 0710rc2 Linuxmce.

I am trying to follow the instructions on the above link, but I can't get the Tricklestar Remote (200ZW-EU-W) to go into the mode (green light flashing) needed for downloading the configuration. I can send the Reset command to the USB adapter - that says OK. Then I press the upper button on the Remote and wait. It starts blinking yellow, then after 10-15 sec. it goes red . Then again yellow blinking, red steady and so on. Newer steady green light. A couple of times it did blink up green and the go red again. I tried rebooting, quick reloading before the reset and so on. All sort of combinations.

Could it be that teh remote it does not have enough battery power - should I load it completely before doing this ? There is no manual say how to reset the Remote or how to see when the battery is fully loaded.

Maybe the Tricklestar USB adapter (300ZW-EU-W) is not added correctly - how can I control that ? Is it OK when it says OK after the reset command. I added the USB ID I am using to the  TrickleStar USB adapter (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Tricklestar_300ZW-EU-W) page. Maybe that is the wrong one ?

Attached is a logfile from one time where it did blink green, but it did not have a steady green light before - just went into the blinking state. I then tried to load the configuration. But after a quick reload of the core I did not get the remote into green blinking again :(

Here is also some logging after setting up the log levels 36,40 and 41. I did a reset and after that i held the top button of the remote for several minutes - it just did the yellow flashing and red steady light - as you can see nothing happened :

Code: [Select]
36      01/18/09 21:14:21.483           Received command #776 - Reset <0xb6990b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:21.483           Resetting the eprom and all node information <0xb6990b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:21.483           Reset controller and erase all node information <0xb6990b90>
40      01/18/09 21:14:21.511           Sending job 0x80a7e20 (cb 24) - 0x1 0x4 0x0 0x42 0x18 0xa1 (###B##) <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:14:21.515           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:14:22.331           0x1 0x4 0x0 0x42 0x18 0xa1 (###B##) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:22.331           Generic callback handling for command 66, removing job <0xb7992b90>

36      01/18/09 21:14:52.435           We have been idle for 30 seconds, polling device states <0xb7992b90>
40      01/18/09 21:14:52.535           Sending job 0x80a8040 (cb 25) - 0x1 0x9 0x0 0x13 0xff 0x2 0x20 0x2 0x5 0x19 0x26 (###### ###&) <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:14:52.539           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:14:52.543           0x1 0x4 0x1 0x13 0x1 0xe8 (######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:52.543           ZW_SEND delivered to Z-Wave stack <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:14:52.563           0x1 0x5 0x0 0x13 0x19 0x0 0xf0 (#######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:52.563           ZW_SEND Response with callback 25 received <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:14:52.563           ZW_SEND was successful, removing job <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:22.667           We have been idle for 30 seconds, polling device states <0xb7992b90>
40      01/18/09 21:15:22.767           Sending job 0x80a8260 (cb 26) - 0x1 0x9 0x0 0x13 0xff 0x2 0x20 0x2 0x5 0x1a 0x25 (###### ###%) <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:22.771           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:22.775           0x1 0x4 0x1 0x13 0x1 0xe8 (######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:22.775           ZW_SEND delivered to Z-Wave stack <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:22.795           0x1 0x5 0x0 0x13 0x1a 0x0 0xf3 (#######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:22.795           ZW_SEND Response with callback 26 received <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:22.795           ZW_SEND was successful, removing job <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:52.895           We have been idle for 30 seconds, polling device states <0xb7992b90>
40      01/18/09 21:15:52.995           Sending job 0x80a8480 (cb 27) - 0x1 0x9 0x0 0x13 0xff 0x2 0x20 0x2 0x5 0x1b 0x24 (###### ###$) <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:52.999           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:53.003           0x1 0x4 0x1 0x13 0x1 0xe8 (######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:53.003           ZW_SEND delivered to Z-Wave stack <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:15:53.023           0x1 0x5 0x0 0x13 0x1b 0x0 0xf2 (#######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:53.023           ZW_SEND Response with callback 27 received <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:15:53.023           ZW_SEND was successful, removing job <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:23.123           We have been idle for 30 seconds, polling device states <0xb7992b90>
40      01/18/09 21:16:23.223           Sending job 0x80a86a0 (cb 28) - 0x1 0x9 0x0 0x13 0xff 0x2 0x20 0x2 0x5 0x1c 0x23 (###### ####) <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:23.227           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:23.231           0x1 0x4 0x1 0x13 0x1 0xe8 (######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:23.231           ZW_SEND delivered to Z-Wave stack <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:23.251           0x1 0x5 0x0 0x13 0x1c 0x0 0xf5 (#######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:23.251           ZW_SEND Response with callback 28 received <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:23.251           ZW_SEND was successful, removing job <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:53.355           We have been idle for 30 seconds, polling device states <0xb7992b90>
40      01/18/09 21:16:53.455           Sending job 0x80a88c0 (cb 29) - 0x1 0x9 0x0 0x13 0xff 0x2 0x20 0x2 0x5 0x1d 0x22 (###### ###") <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:53.459           ACK RECEIVED <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:53.463           0x1 0x4 0x1 0x13 0x1 0xe8 (######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:53.463           ZW_SEND delivered to Z-Wave stack <0xb7992b90>
41      01/18/09 21:16:53.483           0x1 0x5 0x0 0x13 0x1d 0x0 0xf4 (#######) <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:53.483           ZW_SEND Response with callback 29 received <0xb7992b90>
36      01/18/09 21:16:53.483           ZW_SEND was successful, removing job <0xb7992b90>

Thanks for any help :)
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices with a Z-Wave Remote
Post by: hari on January 18, 2009, 11:27:06 pm
I am trying to follow the instructions on the above link, but I can't get the Tricklestar Remote (200ZW-EU-W) to go into the mode (green light flashing) needed for downloading the configuration. I can send the Reset command to the USB adapter - that says OK.
yeah, the reset looks ok from the logs.

Quote
Then I press the upper button on the Remote and wait. It starts blinking yellow, then after 10-15 sec. it goes red . Then again yellow blinking, red steady and so on. Newer steady green light. A couple of times it did blink up green and the go red again. I tried rebooting, quick reloading before the reset and so on. All sort of combinations.

is the remote put in configuration mode? (small switch besides usb plug)
send the "download configuration" command to the z-wave interface.
press and hold "up" until it goes green and the press "up" again shortly.

Quote
There is no manual say how to reset the Remote or how to see when the battery is fully loaded.
you can download the manual.

Quote
Maybe the Tricklestar USB adapter (300ZW-EU-W) is not added correctly - how can I control that ? Is it OK when it says OK after the reset command. I added the USB ID I am using to the  TrickleStar USB adapter (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Tricklestar_300ZW-EU-W) page. Maybe that is the wrong one ?
this side is fine.

br, Hari
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on January 20, 2009, 12:02:36 am
Hallo Hari,

Quote
is the remote put in configuration mode? (small switch besides usb plug)

That was the info I was missing :) I did not find the manual yesterday on the TrickleStar homepage - probably was to tired ;)
I added that to the wiki - so that the next one won't trap into that also.

Quote
send the "download configuration" command to the z-wave interface.
press and hold "up" until it goes green and the press "up" again shortly.
That worked too - in the Wiki it is described the other way around - that did not work for me. But I also forget to do the quick reload first time I tried. So maybe the wiki way also works. But I added your way of doing it to the wiki too ;)

So far so good. The remote already knew the zwave dimmer so it popped up in the Wizard/devices/Lights after some quick reloads (that linuxmce wanted me to do). So I did not add that one after the remote was added - it was added together with the remote in "download configuration".

So now I would like to add a on/off switch with the remote. I got the remote into green blinking mode (is that called SIS mode/SIS insert mode/ ... ?) and added the switch with a press on the switch button. The remote went green steady and i did a quick reload on the core.

But no switch came up ... even tried to reload two more times (IIRC).

So I sent the "download configuration" command again and brought the remote into green blinking mode. And after two quick reloads (one there was assumed reading the wiki and one that linuxmce told me to do because it found new devices). And now the switch shows up :)

So it does not automagically show up on my system !? I can live with that but it would be nice if it worked like it should ;)

Greetings
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on January 20, 2009, 12:18:33 am
Hi again,

after playing a little with my lamps, I just had to say this. Wow - I really like what linuxmce can do with lightning :D
Can't wait until my Motion Detector and door alarm arrives from England ;)

Good job Hari and all the others helping with LinuxMCE.

Greetings
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hari on January 20, 2009, 01:22:31 am
they do automatically show up but you have to pair a reset dongle with a reset remote.

br, Hari
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: samuelmukoti on January 20, 2009, 03:11:54 am
hi,

A the days go by I've been more and more loosing hope of my zwave devices working as I'm struggling to find someone who will ship direct to South Africa. 

From the way this thread is going I take it since I don't have a remote, I might aswell throw my ZCU201 in the bin? Because I don't mind even trying 810 alpha if there's hope?

Best regards

Sam
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on January 20, 2009, 06:55:35 pm
Hi Hari,
they do automatically show up but you have to pair a reset dongle with a reset remote.

Sorry, but I don't understand what that means !?

Greetings
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hari on January 20, 2009, 07:43:45 pm
you have to reset the dongle and the remote.
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on January 20, 2009, 09:58:21 pm
Hi Hari,

Ok, found how to reset the remote in the 200zw manual. And the USB Stick I have to send the command "reset" I assume.

How can I test that ?
I have only got two zwave devices at the moment and they are already included ;) Can I just delete them in the Webinterface below lightning ? Probably not from what I have read.

And what happens if I move a zwave device to another room. Can I just change the room description and move it to the new room in the room plan ? The 200ZW manual says that one should  "first Exclude it from the network, then Include it back to the network after you have re-located it.".

The 200ZW manual tells how to exclude things :

Excluding Devices from a Network
1. Put the Configuration Switch in “Configuration Mode”.
2. Press-and-hold “Up” Operation button for 2 seconds to enter Configuration Mode. LED Indicator will illuminate Green.
3. Short-press the “Down” Operation Button one time to put the device into Exclusion Mode.
4. Press the Exclusion Initiator of the Device to be Excluded (normally the same button as the Inclusion Initiator).
5. LED Indicator on the Remote will illuminate Green when device is successfully excluded and illuminate Red if the operation is unsuccessful.
Repeat steps 2-5 for each Device to be Excluded from the Network.

But what then afterwards ? Send command "download configuration" ? Or also reset both devices ?

Thanks a lot that you take the time to answer :)
I will "reward it" by updating the wiki accordingly so the next will know what to do.

Greetings
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: hari on January 20, 2009, 10:32:25 pm
Ok, found how to reset the remote in the 200zw manual. And the USB Stick I have to send the command "reset" I assume.
your assumptions should be correct.

Quote
How can I test that ?
follow the steps?

Quote
I have only got two zwave devices at the moment and they are already included ;) Can I just delete them in the Webinterface below lightning ? Probably not from what I have read.
no, you really should exclude them. Always. Ever.

Quote
And what happens if I move a zwave device to another room. Can I just change the room description and move it to the new room in the room plan ? The 200ZW manual says that one should  "first Exclude it from the network, then Include it back to the network after you have re-located it.".
Prolly they have good reason if they write it into the manual :-) Z-Wave is a mesh. The routing table is updated at inclusion/exclusion. When you move stuff around without following the procedure (except portable devices like remote controllers) you can get network problems.

Quote
The 200ZW manual tells how to exclude things :

...

But what then afterwards ? Send command "download configuration" ? Or also reset both devices ?
after that? Yes reset both devices, download to the dongle and then add your devices at their final location.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on January 22, 2009, 12:37:13 am
Hi Hari,

OK, thanks a lot for the infos - now I am a lot more informed about Z-Wave :)

I will test it one of the day and tell if it works :) I am now into planning and doing other things in my new house - such as New Bathroom and other more or less interesting things ;)

Greetings
Viking
Title: Re: Pairing Z-Wave devices without a Z-Wave Remote/ Control Center
Post by: Viking on February 05, 2009, 12:48:54 am
Hi Hari,

after finishing a lot in my house ;) I had time to test exclusion and re-inclusion. It does not seem to need an reset of the USB dongle and the remote !? It only works if I follow the old instructions and just do a reload of the router. I get an Orbiter message telling if inclusion or exclusion was successful.

I have updated the wiki so that it now also includes the "how to exclude" part.

Thanks for your work on the driver :)

Greetings
Viking