LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: jgaffney on October 03, 2008, 08:37:18 pm

Title: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 03, 2008, 08:37:18 pm
Greetings,

I've been using LMCE for about a year and the developers have done a great job so far.  But there are a few features I HAVE to have to make it useful.  1.  Ease of use creating playlists, (ability to queue files, not have start at the beginning after every entry). 2. Cover art should be able to find at least 90%, (amarok can do with the same files).  3.  Touch screen compatabilty with UI2. 4. Netlix tie in. 5. It also just needs to work.  I find myself constantly babying it and tweaking things to make it function.  The claim that no linux knowledge is a bit false to truly run LMCE.

So, I'm forced to use something other than LMCE for now.  Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendation?  The only other media center software I know of is Windows.  I'm not against that either and don't care about cost.  I've invested to much in hardware at this point so I really need something reliable and fully functional.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: totallymaxed on October 03, 2008, 09:12:51 pm
Greetings,

I've been using LMCE for about a year and the developers have done a great job so far.  But there are a few features I HAVE to have to make it useful.  1.  Ease of use creating playlists, (ability to queue files, not have start at the beginning after every entry). 2. Cover art should be able to find at least 90%, (amarok can do with the same files).  3.  Touch screen compatabilty with UI2. 4. Netlix tie in. 5. It also just needs to work.  I find myself constantly babying it and tweaking things to make it function.  The claim that no linux knowledge is a bit false to truly run LMCE.

So, I'm forced to use something other than LMCE for now.  Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendation?  The only other media center software I know of is Windows.  I'm not against that either and don't care about cost.  I've invested to much in hardware at this point so I really need something reliable and fully functional.

Thank you.

Hi there,

Well I agree that in some of the areas you have identified there is some work to do for sure. But on the other hand we are installing Dianemo here ein the UK (Dianemo is based on LinuxMCE) and all of our customer are 100% non-technical users... ie they just use the system and are not in anyway interested in digging into to the technical side of the system. Our experience is that with properly configured hardware that is suited to the task LinuxMCE is very stable & reliable.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: freymann on October 03, 2008, 10:18:25 pm
I've been using LMCE for about a year and the developers have done a great job so far.  But there are a few features I HAVE to have to make it useful.  1.  Ease of use creating playlists, (ability to queue files, not have start at the beginning after every entry). 2. Cover art should be able to find at least 90%, (amarok can do with the same files).  3.  Touch screen compatabilty with UI2. 4. Netlix tie in. 5. It also just needs to work.  I find myself constantly babying it and tweaking things to make it function.  The claim that no linux knowledge is a bit false to truly run LMCE.

I guess LMCE just isn't for everybody ;-)

JonDecker has done some great work with playlists in the pluto-admin. Have been you following his work? Search the forums...

Are you referring to Cover Art for music or movies? I find about 98% of my movie coverart just fine, and when it doesn't, I open up a second window and use www.imdb.com and just cut & paste. Although I have a rather large music collection, I really couldn't care less if the album art shows up or not, but that's just me.

Touch screen would be nice indeed. There has been some discussions about this in the forums too but I haven't paid that close attention to the details.

A year or so ago when I was looking for a way to make my computer the central hub for media, I did some looking and quite frankly, I didn't find anything I liked until I discovered LMCE. My first attempt failed terribly so I went with MythBuntu until the next official release of LMCE and I've been here since June.

Initially I was happy with just media, but since LMCE does home automation, and I like that kinda thing, I added some X10 stuff (because it was cheap). I'd love to add VOIP but our DSL connection isn't that fast and it goes out more than I like, so I've passed on that for now.

Anyway, you asked about other media centers (and I can hear Thom in the background now yelling - "LMCE is not just a media center!!"). Here's some bookmarks I made that you may find useful (or not):

Some of these may be (cough) Windoze based..

http://vcrib.wikidot.com/start

http://geexbox.org/en/index.html

http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44

http://www.mythbuntu.org/

http://xbmc.org/

And finally:

http://www.usbuirt.com/overview.htm

If you go to the bottom, the USB UIRT web page has logos for all the software it works with, and many of those are media centers.

I don't how much help you'll get here, asking about other Media Centers, afterall, it is the LMCE Forum.  ;D
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 04, 2008, 12:43:58 am
I certainly agree that we can't spend too much time advising of other media centres on the LMCE forums! And freymann has given a list anyway. But I would like to comment on some of your points:

1) I definitely agree on this point, and as already commented Jon has done a lot of work in this area. He has been the first to admit that it isn't complete yet, but apparently it is far better than it was. But your enqueue point is the key here. With that in place it would be much more viable to create dynamic lists and simply save them for re-editing later rather than having to use the web interface. I logged a Mantis feature request for this many months ago. Although it hasn't progressed at all, I do know there was general agreement that this should be done. Unfortunately, my own skills are no where near what they need to be to make this change myself, yet.

3) This has been discussed, but I know the general consensus was that UI2 is intended to be exclusively an on-screen orbiter so having touch screen capability was pointless. I'm not sure I agree with that because it is certainly entirely possible that you could have a small/portable screen device in which case touch sensitivity would be helpful.

Mine is stable, and the only tweaking I need to do is when I have been dicking around with something. I would say that with the right hardware and following the recommendations, and then not dicking with it will leave you with a system that just works! Certainly in many ways 0710 is far smoother than 0704, and I anticipate that 0810 will be smoother again...
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 04, 2008, 06:46:25 pm
Thanx for the replies.  I realize asking recommendations for other software here may be a little odd. But I see nothing wrong with helping other people.  I'm not into this vs that, I just want something that does what I need. I have nothing against LMCE, it's great, it just isn't fitting my needs at the moment.  LMCE is much more than just a media center, but all I need is just a media center.

How is anyone going to know if LMCE is good or not if they don't know their other options are anyway.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 04, 2008, 07:14:10 pm
Just out of curiousity, what effort have you put in to address these issues that are so important to you? 
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 05, 2008, 07:13:38 pm
Since I'm not a programmer that answer would be nothing.  Since you brought it up,  that's the kind of question and attitude that turns people away.  You give out the feel that if you can't contribute then you shouldn't use it.  LMCE is marketed as "no linux skills required", but when someone comes out here and asks for help its a commen response that you just gave.  I kinda get the sense that if you can't help develop it then you have no business asking for help.
There are alot of helpful people out here but there are also a few that could be a little more friendly.


Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 05, 2008, 09:18:21 pm
Now apart from you pretending you never got any help around here with anything at all...  How exactly do you expect your minor issues to get solved when you can't even be bothered to put in any effort whatsoever yourself

And just to point out the obvious, you weren't exactly asking for help with LMCE in this thread, now were you?  But maybe you're right and we should all just go sit on our asses and bitch about things instead, I'm sure that would magically fix everything in no time flat. :P
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 06, 2008, 04:59:15 am
Nice Zaerc,  you're always so friendly  ::)

Do you honestly expect everyone to be able to write code who wants to use LMCE?  Please,  you're the most annoying kid out here.  You constantly talk down to people out here, make things up and think your king of the world.  You're posts don't even make sense.

First of all, when did I ever say I never got any help out here?
Second, "be bothered"   what does that even mean?  Like 90% of the other people who want to use a media center, I don't write code. 
And No, this thread isn't about asking for LMCE help, I stated that clearly in the first post.  So again, what's the point of that comment?

They are not "minor issues" as you claim.  They are issues that make it unusable for me, that's why I'm looking for something that fits my needs.  No one is bitching about anything but you. 

You can put yourself on the highest pedestal you want.  But you're the guy nobody likes, the one that turns people away from LMCE.  You're tone is horrible, you don't help, you just complain about other people asking for help.  LMCE is far better off without you.

So there you have it, now I helped.  Now I created a thread that lists issues that made me turn away from LMCE, it lists features that are missing that others may need. And most importantly it brought out your childish attitude for others to see and will now know that your the one they all need to avoid.

Since you had nothing useful to add to this thread, why did you even bother to jump in? 
FYI - Trolls are looked down upon on message boards.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 06, 2008, 07:08:52 am
Nice Zaerc,  you're always so friendly  ::)
Unlike yourself.  ::)

Do you honestly expect everyone to be able to write code who wants to use LMCE?  Please,  you're the most annoying kid out here.  You constantly talk down to people out here, make things up and think your king of the world.  You're posts don't even make sense.
No, but I do expect them to either put in some effort or quit whinging about their uber-important issues which are most of the time really disguised feature requests that often make no sense at all. 

First of all, when did I ever say I never got any help out here?
Second, "be bothered"   what does that even mean?  Like 90% of the other people who want to use a media center, I don't write code. 
And No, this thread isn't about asking for LMCE help, I stated that clearly in the first post.  So again, what's the point of that comment?
There are more things you could do to help out besides coding, but oh dear that all takes actual effort, and god forbid you might learn a thing or two in the process.  Now what exactly was the point for asking us dramaticly what other media centers are out there, ever heard of this little site called google?

They are not "minor issues" as you claim.  They are issues that make it unusable for me, that's why I'm looking for something that fits my needs.  No one is bitching about anything but you. 
Your "major" issues (or rather mostly feature requests) are a joke.

You can put yourself on the highest pedestal you want.  But you're the guy nobody likes, the one that turns people away from LMCE.  You're tone is horrible, you don't help, you just complain about other people asking for help.  LMCE is far better off without you.
Bitch bitch bitch, nice attempted troll, a little obvious though.

So there you have it, now I helped.  Now I created a thread that lists issues that made me turn away from LMCE, it lists features that are missing that others may need. And most importantly it brought out your childish attitude for others to see and will now know that your the one they all need to avoid.
Thanks for your generous contribution, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Since you had nothing useful to add to this thread, why did you even bother to jump in? 
FYI - Trolls are looked down upon on message boards.
I was bored waiting for another build to complete, and useless whiners, who have nothing better to do then bitch and moan, annoy me.
So... what's your excuse?


Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 06, 2008, 10:30:17 am
/me gets some popcorn
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: seth on October 06, 2008, 02:07:41 pm
 :(
Well. Another displeased user. Given the obvious complexity of this post, I will just add my bits to it:

1. LinuxMCE is just about perfect for use as a media center, but it can do so much more. If a media center is all you want, then hit up one of the mythtv distros, like Mythbuntu, Knoppmyth, or MyhDora (although I do not recommend this one) But understand, some of the greatest parts of LMCE are its ability to share media, and have it anywhere there is a network connection.

2. LinuxMCE can play well with all of these mythtv distros. I have a core, that normally just runs headless, but on occasion I do hook a monitor up to it, and watch some TV, grab a flick, or jam to some good music. But in my mix at home I have MythBunutu, and Xbox Media Center, using the files served up by my core. My main viewing area is a MD booted from an image on my core, but the Xbox in the family room watches the recordings made by LMCE's MythTV, as well as watching the Movies archived on the core, and it can play my vast music collection.

3. I am no coder by any means, I do have a fair amount of linux experience, but it is not really required. If you use supported hardware, and the vastly useful wiki entries, your whole house can benefit from having LinuxMCE at its core. Not only does it serve (as in server) as a media hub, but it also acts as a file server, print server, security system, environmental lighting system (really cool stuff), and lastly as a place to watch a good show, record it, or fire up a movie, or jam to some tunes.
I state here that I am no coder, but I have contributed in the forums, in the IRC channel, and have made several wiki entries. Not overlooking the one on using the netfilx player, as a core component in LinuxMCE, and being able to share its resources with any other MD in the house, or all at once.  So there is the netflix bit.

4. I say I contribute by adding wiki stuff, and answering questions in the forums, and on IRC. Most of this is based on the time I spent cutting my teeth on this wonderful whole house platform. I have run into all kinds of nastiness, almost solely due to my ignorance, but in those failures/mistakes, I have gained wisdom, which I gladly pass on to others who have hit the same hurdle, and I can help them over it, because I got around it.

But fore most, above all this, are the guys who actually tame this beast, like Thom (Tschak), Hari, Posde, DanielK, TotallyMaxed, tkmedia, and Mostly, our friend Zaerc. He may be short at times, with the whiners (and yes I have been called that as well, and yes it was true) but his knowledge of this platform is such a blessing to us all, that even being short, we can only be glad he is working for us (for free I might add) as are all the others. Sometimes tensions get a bit testy about these forums, but you can only truely appreciate them, when you see what it is giving you in the end, which will only cost you time, and a little bit of patience, and possibly some hardware.
And don't even get me started on Thom (Tschak) he I think out of them all knows this system down to the code level, and I have been smacked in the head by him more than once, and he was also correct. You have to understand, this entire project as a whole is voluntary, granted contributers like TotallyMaxed do this for a living, putting this amazing platform in peoples homes all the time, but the rest of the core devs have lives and jobs and families as well. They do this in their spare time, sometimes at great cost to themselves, just to be able to hand users like yourself and I this great piece of software. So give it a chance to become a part of your life, and thank them. Heh, when you get smacked, say "Thank You, and May I Please Have Another", you won't regret it.  ;D

Please do not let angry retorts, or a bit of character bashing, sway you from using the best whole solution available to you, at no cost.

I have had my arse handed to me more than once, and I still come back, and help in ANY way that I can, and when you get rubbed the wrong way, just smile. If you stick with it, you will not be sorry that you did.

New features emerge all the time, and you may not be able to code, but you can help test, and report issues on new features. Heck maybe by some odd luck, you could solve the very issue that you reported, just do your part, and watch this project fold into your life.

Just my bits, and observations.

Regards, and All The Best,

Seth
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 07, 2008, 04:41:17 am
Zaerc,  at least have the decency to read what's written.  For you to decide for someone else what's a minor issue is just foolish.

So here are the detailed reasons (for others to understand) for my so called "uber-important issues that make no sense at all"  ::)  that you claim "are a joke"

The main users in my house are my wife and children.  The Fiire remote is OK, but not great.  It's not something you can move around very accurately with and tends to drift at times.  It ends up being more a pain for us than ease of use and my kids have no shot at it.  So, the answer to this problem is a touchscreen.  A touchscreen that requires cover art as my kids are to  young to read.  You just can't beat the ease of use of a touchscreen.  And who wants a media center without cover art?

Yes, I could *manually* add cover art to over 4000+ files through a clunky web interface, but it's very impracticable.  Especially when it will most likely get lost when an updated is needed. 

Playlists are created almost daily in my house.  When I'm use to using an app like Amarok that can browse files and *queue* them to a playlist in seconds compared to the tedious method in LMCE, it just isn't worth doing.  And yes, I followed the playlist thread and tried it that was mentioned early, it just needs more work at this point.
Finally, Netlix.  If you're a subscriber it only makes sense to have it tie into ones media center.

The bottom line here is LMCE just doesn't fit my needs.  I understand this make you angry, get over it.  As you stated, you started a bitch post because you're tired of people whining.  Now that's just hypocritical. Not to mention you're really not helping your cause here at any level.

Finally, if these issues are as "minor" as you claim.  I would think a kid of your skills would be able to fix them without much effort.  So get at it and you won't have to read so many threads about people "bitching".  :-*

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 07, 2008, 04:47:26 am
I would very much like to point out that yes, it does take a bit to tag things.. BUT, once they are, they are stored alongside the files..so they aren't lost in an upgrade.

You really are on the cusp of assuming things out of frustration. I wouldn't do that.

There is also a fix for what you see as unexpected playlist behavior:

There is a switch in the media plugin, go to advanced > configuration > devices, and select the media plugin.. there is a switch for queue only. Select it and reload router.

and NetFlix support? you're going to ditch us over that? Really?

my god, okay.. you know what? ... go. You are someone that even if we did all these things, you still wouldn't be happy... so... go...

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 07, 2008, 04:59:29 am
Thom - I'm curious about what the queue only switch does that you mentioned... but when I look in the config for my Media plugin I don't see the switch you are talking about. Is it a check box, or do you mean a piece of text added to the string down the bottom (with the audio ripping details in it already)?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 07, 2008, 05:16:41 am
tschak909,

I'm not leaving for Netflix,  it's *one* of the features I'd like to have.  XMBC and Vista MCE have it, it should at least be on the radar.  The main issue I have is no touch screen with UI2 and coverart,  that's just critical for me.  I stated in my origial post I think LMCE is great and the developers have done a great job so far.  Why is everyone so sensitive out here?
Why does the touchscreen feature I keep mentioning keep being passed over?  When the users don't and/or can't use the Fiire remote with ease a touchscreen is the best solution.

My comment about losing things after an upgrade are because that's what happend when I went from 704 to 710.  I did an in place *upgrade* and ended up with some issues I couldn't get resolved.  Issues that others out here had also, it was easier to wipe the drive and start over with a clean install.  Resulting in lost coverart.  Maybe there is a way around it now or the next "upgrade" will actually work.  But after going through 4000+ files twice,  it's not something I want to do again.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 07, 2008, 05:25:50 am
Zaerc,  at least have the decency to read what's written.  For you to decide for someone else what's a minor issue is just foolish.

So here are the detailed reasons (for others to understand) for my so called "uber-important issues that make no sense at all"  ::)  that you claim "are a joke"

The main users in my house are my wife and children.  The Fiire remote is OK, but not great.  It's not something you can move around very accurately with and tends to drift at times.  It ends up being more a pain for us than ease of use and my kids have no shot at it.  So, the answer to this problem is a touchscreen.  A touchscreen that requires cover art as my kids are to  young to read.  You just can't beat the ease of use of a touchscreen.  And who wants a media center without cover art?

Yes, I could *manually* add cover art to over 4000+ files through a clunky web interface, but it's very impracticable.  Especially when it will most likely get lost when an updated is needed. 

Playlists are created almost daily in my house.  When I'm use to using an app like Amarok that can browse files and *queue* them to a playlist in seconds compared to the tedious method in LMCE, it just isn't worth doing.  And yes, I followed the playlist thread and tried it that was mentioned early, it just needs more work at this point.
Finally, Netlix.  If you're a subscriber it only makes sense to have it tie into ones media center.

The bottom line here is LMCE just doesn't fit my needs.  I understand this make you angry, get over it.  As you stated, you started a bitch post because you're tired of people whining.  Now that's just hypocritical. Not to mention you're really not helping your cause here at any level.

Finally, if these issues are as "minor" as you claim.  I would think a kid of your skills would be able to fix them without much effort.  So get at it and you won't have to read so many threads about people "bitching".  :-*



Sir! yes Sir!  I'll get on it right away... Can you believe this guy? ;D 

I'm not really sure how to break it to you, but useless people like you don't get to schedule my priorities thank you very much. And if you can't even be bothered to put in any effort yourself while they are "the biggest problems ever", then why should I when they never really bother me? 

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 07, 2008, 05:29:29 am
jgaffney - the point that was being made about not loosing attributes and coverart was a new feature in 0710. UpdateMedia not only writes the attributes and coverart into its LMCE database, but also inserts both into the id3 tags embedded in your mp3 files (which you can easily confirm by looking at your audio files in Windows Explorer or a decent id3 tag editor). For file formats that are not convenient/possible to tag internally such as video files, UpdateMedia creates a file alongside the media file with a .id3 extension to contain both attributes and coverart. If you upgrade but don't retain the database, or reinstall from scratch, UpdateMedia will simply read all that info back into the database - thus you will not loose anything again. Believe me, I have rebuild dozens of times from scratch, and this works seemlessly. Just be aware that you will loose your playlists, but jondecker76 has written a backup utility for that.


Thom - have looked around most of the devices and plugins and cannot find a switch that sounds like the one you were referring to. Am really keen to try it out, can you let me know where it is?

Col.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 07, 2008, 05:39:29 am
Sir! yes Sir!  I'll get on it right away... Can you believe this guy? ;D 

I'm not really sure how to break it to you, but useless people like you don't get to schedule my priorities thank you very much. And if you can't even be bothered to put in any effort yourself while they are "the biggest problems ever", then why should I when they never really bother me? 



*hmm*

Collinjones,  that's good info to know.  But I still need touchscreen functionality with UI2 :(
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 07, 2008, 06:01:17 am
sorry, OOPS.

It's set for each orbiter. Go into the devices view of each orbiter, there is a "queue instead of instant play" checkbox.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 07, 2008, 06:28:06 am
Sorry Thom - I feel like I'm being really stupid here! I go into the devices tree (Advanced->Configuration->Devices), navigate down to the On-Screen Orbiter device under The core/hybrid, click on it, then read through the device configuration data in the right pane, but can't see a check box called "queue instead of instant play". Even if I go in via Wizard->Devices->Orbiters and click the Advanced option, its the same config data, without that option....

Am I looking in completely the wrong place? There are other options like OCG Format, Don't Auto Jump To Remote, etc just so you know exactly where I am in the web admin.

I'm using 0710 i386 DVD install, but haven't updated since RC2 except Andrew's new VDR-10 code... is it possible you have a later build where this has been added or was it always there?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 07, 2008, 06:30:24 am
oh.. heh.. it seems to be in trunk, not the 0710 release. ;-)

sorry

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 07, 2008, 06:35:04 am
arrgghh!!! No fair, teaser ;)

Is it orbiter code or media plugin? And whichever, is it possible for me to just build that bit of code from the trunk checkout I have and pop the binary into the right spot plus reload? Or are there too many changes for it to be compatible?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 07, 2008, 01:23:10 pm
it would be very difficult to back-port any current changes to the orbiter, i've tried this before and some interesting breakages have resulted.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 12, 2008, 05:03:22 am
I can say I'm officially done with LMCE.  Thanx to tschak909 and Zaerac they have inspired me to write up a full review of my LMCE experience and it's comparison to VMC and why I made the switch.

So zaerac and tshak909 prepare yourself for more sleepless nights,  my post will be coming soon.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 12, 2008, 05:07:02 am
You will be missed. May your review never be read.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 12, 2008, 11:29:54 am
So zaerac and tshak909 prepare yourself for more sleepless nights,  my post will be coming soon.

*muahahahaha*
/me gets some popcorn.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 12, 2008, 04:46:48 pm
I can say I'm officially done with LMCE.  Thanx to tschak909 and Zaerac they have inspired me to write up a full review of my LMCE experience and it's comparison to VMC and why I made the switch.

So zaerac and tshak909 prepare yourself for more sleepless nights,  my post will be coming soon.


Yeah people like you trolling around with smart responses like "*hmm*" really give me sleeples nights, honest!  :P

Now let me save you some trouble and write that review for you:
Quote
Linuxmce totally blows in comparison to VMC because the playlists did not work exactly as I want them to and it didn't find all the pictures for my CDs, the end.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 12, 2008, 05:18:00 pm
oh, btw. We don't keep passing over the touch screen option. We have had it for years. Install Orbiter on a touch screen PC. Done. It controls the media directors and other devices in the house.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 12, 2008, 05:38:50 pm
i'm sure he has seen the 3M, ELO and Egalax pages in the Touchscreen category on the wiki..
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: freymann on October 12, 2008, 05:40:34 pm
I can say I'm officially done with LMCE.  Thanx to tschak909 and Zaerac they have inspired me to write up a full review of my LMCE experience and it's comparison to VMC and why I made the switch.

So zaerac and tshak909 prepare yourself for more sleepless nights,  my post will be coming soon.


 Wow, you certainly have taken a beating here in the forums. I was reviewing your posts this morning.

 I honestly wouldn't bother writing up a comparison of VMC (whatever that is? do you have a link?) to LMCE. It reminds me of the blurb I wrote "Why I Left LMCE for MythBuntu" when I was frustrated. It was medicinal for me but nobody here really cared. With all the flack you've gotten why waste your time?

 If LMCE hasn't satisfied your needs then that's OK. There's nothing wrong with moving on to another project. Maybe you'll try something else out after that too? That's the joy of choice and personal satisfaction. Move on knowing you will be able to take the knowledge you've gained poking around LMCE with you and that knowledge will likely make using other installations easier on you. You've lost nothing but gained plenty of (hopefully) useful experiences.

 I think it's pretty obvious that beyond the lack of features you would personally like see in LMCE, the main reason for your departure is how you've been treated here in the forums. There are several of us that reply in a courteous manner and some of the newbie repeat questions that are old school and annoying to some of the regulars now have well documented answers in the wiki that we can point to as reference, which is certainly a step in the right direction.

 I'm purposely keeping my reply very very generic while at the same time acknowledging your complaints about the project. Just let it die there and move on and who knows, perhaps one day you'll revisit (like I did) and have a better experience.

 Good luck!

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 12, 2008, 06:27:14 pm
...
 Wow, you certainly have taken a beating here in the forums. I was reviewing your posts this morning.
...

Amazing isn't it, he comes in here and starts punching people out of frustration with his own incompetence, and then receives a beating.  Who could have guessed?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 13, 2008, 03:57:59 am
Touchscreens are not supported without UI2, as I posted earlier children who cannot read will be using them.  And who wants to use a MEDIA center that can't display graphics and looks like it's from 1982?

It obvious I've touched a few nerves here.  Hmmmm......   If LMCE was as good as advertised that would not be the case.

But again,  the lack of help and attitude from the LMCE community speaks for itself.

Good work guys ;)

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 13, 2008, 04:36:10 am
1982? really?

wow, what a reach.

can't display graphics? what do you mean?

If your kids can't read, shouldn't you be teaching them how to read? I was starting to read at 1 and a half years old.

That aside, there is extensive documentation on either:

(1) using touch screens on media directors, or ... even easier...
(2) installing the media director software (which is linked from the web admin login screen), on a touch screen PC to control an adjacent media director....

but....

I guess, you couldn't be bothered doing that, and just expect the system to do it for you, while chewing your food, wiping your ass, or sucking your... well, you get the idea...

Seriously, man. If you're going to rant..and rave..and scream... at least get the facts straight... or we'll just continue rebutting your claims with....FACT!

*lick-your-cheek* have a nice day, sweetie.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 13, 2008, 04:58:25 am
What touch screen doesnt work? my ipaq touch screen worked and so does the one on my gateway laptop.

just curious...

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Brandon_w on October 13, 2008, 09:16:56 am
ummmm

YEP so does my Sony UX.

AAAANNNNDDD my three year old niece uses it..
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 13, 2008, 11:14:06 am
he's talking about UI2
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 11:15:01 am
But again,  the lack of help and attitude from the LMCE community speaks for itself.

*muahahaha*

it is just a few people in here like you that behave like idiots commiserate themselves.. poor you :-)
If you look at how many people are in here asking sane questions and getting sane responses, fortunately the "dumbass" share is pretty small, under 1%.

wait... why do I feed you with popcorn?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 11:16:01 am
he's talking about UI2
you are aware that UI2 was designed for gyros and not for touchscreens?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 13, 2008, 11:24:00 am
Yes, Hari, of course I am... I was clarifying the point for golgoj and brandon before we went off on a tangent!
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 11:44:05 am
Yes, Hari, of course I am... I was clarifying the point for golgoj and brandon before we went off on a tangent!
ah ok..
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 13, 2008, 06:02:23 pm
Of course I was talking about UI2, I stated that multiple time throughout this thread.  Colinjones picked it up, not sure why the others couldn't, or just more selective reading I guess.

Yes, hari, I realize it wasn't "desinged" for that, but maybe it should be.

Good to know there are some decent people out there (fremann).  But my claims about the general attitude and low class replies are reinforced with everyone of tschak909, Zaerc, and hari's posts.

Seriously girls,  It just work for me. Get over it already.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 06:11:45 pm
Seriously girls,  It just work for me. Get over it already.
no sorry, i can't. I will code everything for you, but please do not stop using lmce!! We need your positive input and your great contributions to the community!! Really.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 13, 2008, 06:19:19 pm
Of course I was talking about UI2, I stated that multiple time throughout this thread.  Colinjones picked it up, not sure why the others couldn't, or just more selective reading I guess.

Yes, hari, I realize it wasn't "desinged" for that, but maybe it should be.

Good to know there are some decent people out there (fremann).  But my claims about the general attitude and low class replies are reinforced with everyone of tschak909, Zaerc, and hari's posts.

Seriously girls,  It just work for me. Get over it already.



Others didnt pick it up because you were making no fucking sense. I just wanted to make sure you assertion was a stupid as it sounded. At least we have a 3 page archive on why you dont post stupid shite ;)

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 13, 2008, 07:30:15 pm
And still going.... Add golgo to the list of "no class".
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 07:44:39 pm
And still going.... Add golgo to the list of "no class".
lol, add me to it, I only leave nonsense here to increase my post count.. what is your exact reason?

wait, I don't care :-)
/me gets more popcorn
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 13, 2008, 08:22:57 pm
you do realise, you're systematically alienating yourself from virtually every single major contributor? on both the user support and developer side?

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on October 13, 2008, 08:32:43 pm
Code: [Select]
_____________________
< muuuh, more popcorn >
 ---------------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\
                ||----w |
                ||     ||
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 13, 2008, 08:56:48 pm
And you're continually creating bad PR for yourself and LMCE.  The difference is, I don't care about it, and you do.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 13, 2008, 08:58:20 pm
Yes I do. Apparently you do too.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: posde on October 13, 2008, 09:10:41 pm
You are all just posting count whore's
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 14, 2008, 06:01:37 am
You are all just posting count hure's

And?  :D
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 14, 2008, 06:02:48 am
And still going.... Add golgo to the list of "no class".

no class but smart enough to read the directions. *shrugs* Haven't you found another forum to bitch @ by now?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: skeptic on October 14, 2008, 07:11:19 am
LinuxMCE has it's warts.  It's far from perfect.  However, it is getting better every release.  It's not just a media center although it does make for a pretty good one even if that's all you use it for.  The network centric and seamless storage alone add capabilities that as far as I know don't exist on any other system.  If there is some other setup where you can take a new diskless computer, plug it in the network, and a short time later be watching tv, listening to music, watching a movie, controlling your lights, etc. please tell me. 

I've had my issues, trust me.  I've been to the brink of giving up but with some helpful advice I got over it and warts and all I wouldn't want to switch to anything else.  I'm not a programmer so my ability to help the project comes from trying to help others, posting up information when I figure stuff out, etc.  Some of the devs here can be a bit harsh at times, but even though I've had my disagreements with them they are all good helpful people.  LinuxMCE is a huge complicated project, far more than any single program.  There are plenty of things I don't like or feel there could be huge improvements, including your main complaint about the UI.  Personally I have no use for touch screen, but it would be nice if there were more UI options, or a much easier way to create a new UI.  However, I know enough to realize this isn't a simple easy request.  The UI isn't as simple as configuring a new look and adding buttons.  UI1 is designed to work on any supported front end device, from TV screens to web pages, to phones, etc.  UI2 was designed (as I understand it) to be a gyro happy interface that tries to stay out of the way.  To address your concerns:

1.  Ease of use creating playlists - as mentioned, this appears to be in the works.  It's not great, but it's getting better.  I haven't seen the new version so I can't say how much better.
2. Cover art should be able to find at least 90% - If you rip your DVDs via LinuxMCE, it works great.  If not you can search via Amazon.  Never ripped a music CD via LinuxMCE, my music was previously ripped with other Linux tools, but I suspect it's similar.
3.  Touch screen compatabilty with UI2 -  If someone really needs a touchpad centric UI, there is a set of video tutorials for creation of a new UI, no programming required.
4. Netlix tie in - I have no interest in Netflix so I've never tried it, but this apparently works: http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/Roku_Netflix_Player
5. It also just needs to work. The claim that no linux knowledge is a bit false to truly run LMCE - this is highly dependent on your hardware.  It's also a known limitation and gets better and better with every new release.  What I can say is if you have the right hardware, it really does just work.   I think the big issue with this is there isn't a good easy to read list or chart of natively (automagically) supported devices.  At least with LinuxMCE if a device isn't natively supported you can get it to work.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: colinjones on October 14, 2008, 02:57:19 pm
i second !
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 14, 2008, 06:12:12 pm
I third it,  it's bringing far to much negativity to LMCE.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 14, 2008, 06:36:52 pm
I third it,  it's bringing far to much negativity to LMCE.

Aren't you the rocket scientist that started it?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 14, 2008, 06:46:35 pm
Way to pick up on the sarcasm golgo,  you're are brilliant. (that was more sarcasm)

To clear it up for up you...again.  My origial post was looking from someone who used other media centers as the list of needs I have were not working out for me with LMCE.  As we all can see, there are to many hard headed people out here that took it personally.  And that brings us where we are today.



Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 14, 2008, 06:50:10 pm
Way to pick up on the sarcasm golgo,  you're are brilliant. (that was more sarcasm)

To clear it up for up you...again.  My origial post was looking from someone who used other media centers as the list of needs I have were not working out for me with LMCE.  As we all can see, there are to many hard headed people out here that took it personally.  And that brings us where we are today.

No, your inability to google brings us where we are today. And nothing else. And to be honest, someone who cant use google attempting to gauge my intelligence is nothing short of laughable.

This thread would more than likely die if you just stopped posting. But I suppose that goes to your 'class' that you always do. But have a nice day.  :D Must be hard out there for ya if finding a media center that has what you need is THAT difficult
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: skeptic on October 14, 2008, 07:16:57 pm
I tried to give the most fair and honest response I could a few posts up...
Way to pick up on the sarcasm golgo,  you're are brilliant. (that was more sarcasm)

To clear it up for up you...again.  My origial post was looking from someone who used other media centers as the list of needs I have were not working out for me with LMCE. 
Google for that, people here use LMCE because we like it better than the other options.  As far as I can tell, the product you "need" doesn't exist.  LinuxMCE is probably the closest, and with a bit of patience (next release) and efforton your part  (make a touchpad UI the way you want)  it could very well be the solution you are looking for.
Quote
As we all can see, there are to many hard headed people out here that took it personally.  And that brings us where we are today.
I can't argue with that, but you must include yourself as well.  You started off ok IMHO, but went down hill quickly.  Personally, I tried to address all your points to the best of my knowledge (and I certainly don't know as much as many/most others here).  However, you seem to have not read my post or simply dismissed it.  It would appear you are looking for sympathy or a reason to be unhappy instead of trying to find actual solutions.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: freymann on October 14, 2008, 08:26:27 pm
What would be interesting to know is:

-what other software packages have you looked at in the last while (to replace LMCE)?

I honestly haven't bothered to go looking for other alternatives as I find LMCE is great! I had a full blown 3-4 station MythBuntu system working and that was fine, but it lacked some of the extra functions that LMCE offers that I would say are now my "must have" features and I would feel 'naked' without them! (specifically for me: X10 integration; IR control; different users; easy Samba shares; easy media discovery; UI2 and gyro control, network booting MD's, various orbiters, events & scenarios, etc)

I downloaded the XBMC iso and booted off it to have a look and yeah, their screens are super pretty, but it doesn't have a PVR so it's useless to me. LMCE will never look that fancy because LMCE has to display on a wide variety of screens and to get that means some of our screens have to look "1982-ish" in order to be so flexible. I don't see anything wrong with the look and feel of UI2 and a gyro. There are some things that can be tidied up but none of those things are show stoppers.

You won't appreciate UI1 until you see it rendered on different orbiters (like a cell phone or PDA or web) and then realize, gee, you can still do all this wonderful stuff from any device. So it's not as pretty as XBMC, but you have so many more options!

I have to thank Thom for educating us on the inner workings of LMCE. There are a few things I think are kinda crazy too, but when you understand why certain things have to work in a particular fashion, it starts to make sense. I thought there was a significant change between the 7.10 betas and the 7.10RC2 package. One can only imagine what good things await us in later releases.

You've made your points about what you like and dislike about LMCE, so perhaps you can now tell us about the other software you are trying out. I'd be interested to hear about it (but I doubt the rest of the readers will be).

There's no sense continuing to bash the project in this thread, so instead, let's hear about the other software you are sampling or just stop posting. It's time to agree to disagree!

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: golgoj4 on October 14, 2008, 09:13:12 pm
What would be interesting to know is:

-what other software packages have you looked at in the last while (to replace LMCE)?

I honestly haven't bothered to go looking for other alternatives as I find LMCE is great! I had a full blown 3-4 station MythBuntu system working and that was fine, but it lacked some of the extra functions that LMCE offers that I would say are now my "must have" features and I would feel 'naked' without them! (specifically for me: X10 integration; IR control; different users; easy Samba shares; easy media discovery; UI2 and gyro control, network booting MD's, various orbiters, events & scenarios, etc)

I downloaded the XBMC iso and booted off it to have a look and yeah, their screens are super pretty, but it doesn't have a PVR so it's useless to me. LMCE will never look that fancy because LMCE has to display on a wide variety of screens and to get that means some of our screens have to look "1982-ish" in order to be so flexible. I don't see anything wrong with the look and feel of UI2 and a gyro. There are some things that can be tidied up but none of those things are show stoppers.

You won't appreciate UI1 until you see it rendered on different orbiters (like a cell phone or PDA or web) and then realize, gee, you can still do all this wonderful stuff from any device. So it's not as pretty as XBMC, but you have so many more options!

I have to thank Thom for educating us on the inner workings of LMCE. There are a few things I think are kinda crazy too, but when you understand why certain things have to work in a particular fashion, it starts to make sense. I thought there was a significant change between the 7.10 betas and the 7.10RC2 package. One can only imagine what good things await us in later releases.

You've made your points about what you like and dislike about LMCE, so perhaps you can now tell us about the other software you are trying out. I'd be interested to hear about it (but I doubt the rest of the readers will be).

There's no sense continuing to bash the project in this thread, so instead, let's hear about the other software you are sampling or just stop posting. It's time to agree to disagree!



slight disagreement. I think we can create nicer looking screens, and people such as me are learning HADesigner thanks to the fact that Thom has been deep into the code, learning what it does. So i think its a matter of time before we start getting more UI skins. As far as other software, this isnt an HTPC forum, its a linuxmce forum. So I dont know why this topic wasnt deleted to begin with. I didnt realize part of linuxmce was posting reviews of other media centers.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: skeptic on October 14, 2008, 10:31:32 pm
slight disagreement. I think we can create nicer looking screens, and people such as me are learning HADesigner thanks to the fact that Thom has been deep into the code, learning what it does. So i think its a matter of time before we start getting more UI skins.
I'm with you 100% on this. We need to have at least one default UI, currently UI1, that works on anything and everything.  However, I see no reason we cannot have additional optional UIs suited for very specific devices.  Why not have a UI that only works well with a touchpad, or on a widescreen 40"+ 720p+ TV, or whatever?

I'll add in a big thanks to Thom for giving the community the instructions to allow creation of new UIs.  If I though a new UI was a requirement for LMCE I'd put in the effort to make one, but I'm satisfied with UI2. 
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 15, 2008, 04:20:04 am
I saw your reply skeptic, but it was too late.  The regular crew already had the damage done. 
Freymann,   I'll be posting shortly my experience with LMCE and Vista Media Center shortly.

This did go downhill fast. But this wasn't started as a bashing thread.  The regulars could of took it as constructive criticism, but instead took it personal and started bashing me.  They didn't point me to the hardware that could tie in netflix in,  I was told to leave because I wanted netflix to tied in.  If this was the first time I read a rude reply to either me or many others it would of been different.  The problem is that's the norm out here, the decent people are the exception.

I could wait for the next release and maybe some things would work better than I want, but I already invested good money into hardware.  So I'm better off using a product that work as I need it to now.

I found that product, it not only does everything I want. It does it better than I expected and much more. 

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 15, 2008, 03:40:59 pm
I saw your reply skeptic, but it was too late.  The regular crew already had the damage done. 
Freymann,   I'll be posting shortly my experience with LMCE and Vista Media Center shortly.

Funny how you couldn't be bothered to respond to skeptic (or Seth) who addressed your "problems", I guess you were more interested in trolling about then finding a solution for your "problems" that you never even bothered asking about.  Quite amusing how you hold everyone else responsable for your own shortcomings with dramatics like "The regular crew already had the damage done", while you're obviously not one of "the exceptions" yourself.

This did go downhill fast. But this wasn't started as a bashing thread.  The regulars could of took it as constructive criticism, but instead took it personal and started bashing me.  They didn't point me to the hardware that could tie in netflix in,  I was told to leave because I wanted netflix to tied in.  If this was the first time I read a rude reply to either me or many others it would of been different.  The problem is that's the norm out here, the decent people are the exception.

This thread wasn't started looking for help either, and in reality it was you that started bashing after the simple question of what you had done yourself to look into these perceived and over exaggerated "problems".  That is mostly why this thread went downhill so fast.  The reason we didn't point you to the netflix hardware was because you never even bothered to ask remember? Now apparently (according to you at least) everything you say is supposed to be "constructive criticism" while everything else is just "rude replies". Oh the drama!

I could wait for the next release and maybe some things would work better than I want, but I already invested good money into hardware.  So I'm better off using a product that work as I need it to now.

I found that product, it not only does everything I want. It does it better than I expected and much more. 

So now that your biassed review of a very limited set of features from a one sided point of view is posted you can finaly move on, I hope you and your product become very happy together.  However I am sorry to inform you that I haven't lost a second of sleep over it like you were so hoping for.


PS. This is called hypocrisy, and it seems rather typical of you:

First of all, when did I ever say I never got any help out here?
But again,  the lack of help and attitude from the LMCE community speaks for itself.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 15, 2008, 03:55:10 pm
Your signature says it all about your character  Zaerc.

The bottom line is If there wasn't so much truth to my posts, you wouldn't be so upset about it.

Go back to your south park episodes.

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: tschak909 on October 15, 2008, 03:56:54 pm
funny how the sense of humour of a comedian is often completely lost on people.

-Thom
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: Zaerc on October 15, 2008, 04:29:31 pm
In this case it's pretty typical I think, I wonder why he's even still here, get over it man!  Got to laugh at the illusion that I'm upset over the amount of "truth" in his posts though, so there might be hope for him afterall.

And thanks for proving my points by once again resorting to petty personal attacks jgaffney, it illustrates your hypocrisy even more.

Now how about you go back to your precious VMC, and enlighten their support facilities with your (loose interpretation of) "decency"?
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: jgaffney on October 15, 2008, 05:09:48 pm
Give a shot, I guarantee you won't turn back.
Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: geekincolorado on January 07, 2009, 12:05:14 am
jgaffney  I want to chime in as I have also posted a comment/question about linuxmce and got nothing but snipe remarks and criticism.  See post http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=6786.msg42113#msg42113  and I will totally agree with you that if you are not a so-called programmer (which is what they seem to consider a contributor) then you just need to move on.     

Now for a side note: 
I can tell you that Vista Ultimate works pretty well with the OML (Open Media Library) and Mymovies installed.  With anydvd I can take just about any movie (currently my son's whole dvd Library) insert it into a dvd caddy, rip it to a drive, and mymovies then imports it.  This works great on my main htpc in the basement but the client (currently a dma2200) is where I have the problems.  With OML and bit os so-called tweaking I have the full library on my extender that I bought (only $120).  VMC has some pitfalls but almost every place I have posted a question.  Just my input.  As for LinuxMCE it is currently only a test product in my house.   I have new dinovo edge keyboard that I got for Christmas (bluetooth) that because it is bluetooth I was hoping LinuxMCE would recognize without tweaking...it didn't.  I put the bluetooth dongle on my vista box and with no drivers, etc.  it just worked.  Did I pay for my VISTA (for those linux people that always push linux is free....) NO.  It is a full MSDN version that was not being used from work. 

I am still trying to decide if linuxMCE is for me but I don't have all the extra time to tweak, tweak, compile, modify this, modify that...  maybe as it progresses it will get better!!

Title: Re: Other Media Centers
Post by: hari on January 07, 2009, 12:33:16 am
my popcorn tin is empty. And this thread is a collection of flames, offenses, off topic and a waste of time.

br, Hari