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General => Users => Topic started by: Afkpuz on May 30, 2008, 10:51:15 pm

Title: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on May 30, 2008, 10:51:15 pm
I tried linuxmce last year (2007) and couldn't even get the thing started/installed.  So I gave up.  This year, I decided to give the new version a try (0710).  I was able to get it installed and I was psyched!  However, I quickly ran into several problems that are making me quit again.  Here are my reasons.  I've researched and asked on these forums, but to no avail.

1.) surround sound.
I have a cheap usb soundcard that gave me surround sound in ubuntu.  Tried it in linuxmce and I have front and rear sound, but no center/sub.  Also, linuxmce refused and I mean flat out refused to control my volume.  I went to the kubuntu desktop and told it to control the correct channel in kmix.  Well, kmix states that it is controlling the proper channel, but linuxmce doesn't change volume when I push the volume buttons/ use the gyro volume option.
 -1 for linuxMCE not being able to do what kubuntu and ubuntu are able to do

2.) ui2 w/ alpha blending
ui2 without alpha blending looks terrible and I don't want to use ui1.  But ui2 w/alpha blending has awful tearing during ANY video playback.  From digital tv to dvds, tearing occurs anytime the camera moves horizontally.  I read that this is due to the nvidia driver.  I also read that this has been around for more than a year.  If you want to get tear free playback, you have to use ui2 without alpha blending.  Unacceptable as this is a MEDIA CENTER!  This should be one of the main problems addressed.  I don't care about mame games!  I care about my media looking the way it's supposed to.  If we can't fix the nvidia driver, then we need a work around.  I would be so pissed if I had built a high definition linuxmce and found this tearing.  luckily, I tested on a regular monitor before splurging on an expensive tv and sound system for linuxmce.
-5 points for linux media center not play media correctly...ever

3.) problems with mythtv
there are certain things that mythtv can do, but linuxmce cannot.  This is very confusing to me...for example, I have an analog tv tuner and a digital tuner.  When I leave linuxmce and goto the kubuntu desktop, I close linuxmce and open mythtv by itself.  While watching tv, I can press "y" to change tuners.  It takes a second, but mythtv successfully changes cards and switches from analog to digital.  Ok great!  Try that in linuxmce and myth freezes.  Sometimes its just mythtv that freezes, sometimes its all of linuxmce, which requires a hard reset.
-10 points for linuxmce not being able to do what mythtv can do, even though it's supposed to be  "seemlessly integrated"

4.) random lockups!
This is the straw that broke my back.  I was ready to live without a center/sub channel.  I was ready to live without being able to control my volume via a remote.  I was also ready to sacrifice transparency and the ability to watch both digital and analog tv in the same sitting.  I read in alot of places that linuxMCE is stable.  Don't those people know that they shouldn't lie to prospectives?!  I cannot and I mean CANNOT leave my computer on for more than half a day without it locking up.  Sometimes, it just stops in mid playback, sometimes it freezes mysteriously overnight and I turn on my monitor to find some random pictures from flickr that won't budge.  I know it's not temperature as I have 4 fans in this case and have even just taken the panel off and set a box fan to blow into the case!  This is probably the most important thing to an "always on" media center: IT HAS TO BE ABLE TO ALWAYS STAY ON!  I could live with all the other problems, but freezing for no reason is just too much, especially since it seems to happen with no pattern.  I've also seen several others having this problem. 
-100 points for linuxmce not being able to run for more than 1/2 a day without dying. 


I've tried several different reinstalls and have all compatible hardware.  Yet, I get all these rediculous problems.  I'm going to install ubuntu and mythtv as I know that my surround sound will fully work, since I've done it before.  I also know that it won't randomly freeze as that was the system I used prior to linuxmce. 

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see linuxmce work.  I'm a huge fan, but I can't personally use it with the above problems.  With the exception of the surround sound problem, I don't think that any release of linuxmce could survive with even 1 of the above problems.  Devs, keep up the good work, but PLEASE make linuxmce stable.  I don't care about new features as much as making the current one's work.  I will continue to follow linuxmce news and will probably try each new release until the above issues are resolved, but I'm leaving.  I hope and pray that by the next release, I'll be able to come back and enjoy the sweetness that is linuxmce.  And please note, when it was working, I LOVED linuxmce.  It just couldn't hold itself together.  Sad day....
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: pcbastard on May 31, 2008, 06:53:55 am
Afkpuz,
I understand your pain.  I completely agree that DVD media play back should work correctly --period!  A media center edition that cannot play media correctly is like buying a car that cannot roll. 
 
However, I have not had the same problem with lockups.  I have 2 boxes with different hardware that run all day without locking up at all.  I used the DVD install in both cases. 

I have yet to try surround sound and Myth TV to comment on them

LMCE been a major frustration for me since I found LMCE while searching for a DVD media server solution.  I was absolutely flabergasted when I found out it also did home automation (another project of mine for years that provided nothing but frustration).  It was a Zen moment for me and I have been excited ever since.  But, alas, frustration is still dogging me (but not as much as before).

But...

In the short time I have been playing with LMCE (a few months), I have seen significant improvements with some issues I had from 7.04.  This gives me hope that in the near future LMCE will get to the point of giving us everything for $nothing.  I will not give up on it like I gave up on my $200 Homeseer software that I could only get to open my garage door from a web interface!

So, hang in there.  There is an automated light at the end of the tunnel!  (dumb, I know).
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on May 31, 2008, 08:52:59 am
1.) surround sound.
I have a cheap usb soundcard that gave me surround sound in ubuntu.  Tried it in linuxmce and I have front and rear sound, but no center/sub.  Also, linuxmce refused and I mean flat out refused to control my volume.  I went to the kubuntu desktop and told it to control the correct channel in kmix.  Well, kmix states that it is controlling the proper channel, but linuxmce doesn't change volume when I push the volume buttons/ use the gyro volume option.
 -1 for linuxMCE not being able to do what kubuntu and ubuntu are able to do

Hmmm... well install a card or use MB that is supported. We are installing systems with 5.1 & 7.1 surround amplification for real customers and it works over Coax or optical.

Quote
2.) ui2 w/ alpha blending
ui2 without alpha blending looks terrible and I don't want to use ui1.  But ui2 w/alpha blending has awful tearing during ANY video playback.  From digital tv to dvds, tearing occurs anytime the camera moves horizontally.  I read that this is due to the nvidia driver.  I also read that this has been around for more than a year.  If you want to get tear free playback, you have to use ui2 without alpha blending.  Unacceptable as this is a MEDIA CENTER!  This should be one of the main problems addressed.  I don't care about mame games!  I care about my media looking the way it's supposed to.  If we can't fix the nvidia driver, then we need a work around.  I would be so pissed if I had built a high definition linuxmce and found this tearing.  luckily, I tested on a regular monitor before splurging on an expensive tv and sound system for linuxmce.
-5 points for linux media center not play media correctly...ever

Yes tearing with UI2 & Alpha blending is a problem still. But even if it was not a problem and there was no tearing we would still not use it. Our feedback from customers who have tested our systems with and without Alpha blending switched on has strongly favored leaving it off. Customers found it visually confusing and just did not like it - so our sense is that is 'form over function'.

So if you really care about your media looking the way its supposed too then just focus on great video playback quality... after all thats one of the key criteria any of our customers have. UI2 with Alpha blending adds nothing too that experience at all.

Quote
3.) problems with mythtv
there are certain things that mythtv can do, but linuxmce cannot.  This is very confusing to me...for example, I have an analog tv tuner and a digital tuner.  When I leave linuxmce and goto the kubuntu desktop, I close linuxmce and open mythtv by itself.  While watching tv, I can press "y" to change tuners.  It takes a second, but mythtv successfully changes cards and switches from analog to digital.  Ok great!  Try that in linuxmce and myth freezes.  Sometimes its just mythtv that freezes, sometimes its all of linuxmce, which requires a hard reset.
-10 points for linuxmce not being able to do what mythtv can do, even though it's supposed to be  "seemlessly integrated"

I cant comment on this one as we dont use MythTV in our installations and I have no experience of it at all.

Quote
4.) random lockups!
This is the straw that broke my back.  I was ready to live without a center/sub channel.  I was ready to live without being able to control my volume via a remote.  I was also ready to sacrifice transparency and the ability to watch both digital and analog tv in the same sitting.  I read in alot of places that linuxMCE is stable.  Don't those people know that they shouldn't lie to prospectives?!  I cannot and I mean CANNOT leave my computer on for more than half a day without it locking up.  Sometimes, it just stops in mid playback, sometimes it freezes mysteriously overnight and I turn on my monitor to find some random pictures from flickr that won't budge.  I know it's not temperature as I have 4 fans in this case and have even just taken the panel off and set a box fan to blow into the case!  This is probably the most important thing to an "always on" media center: IT HAS TO BE ABLE TO ALWAYS STAY ON!  I could live with all the other problems, but freezing for no reason is just too much, especially since it seems to happen with no pattern.  I've also seen several others having this problem. 
-100 points for linuxmce not being able to run for more than 1/2 a day without dying.

Hmmm... well we have multiple installations and we just dont see this at all with LinuxMCE-0710. Customers would let us know pretty damn quickly if this was happening - it just isn't. Look around this forum... if there was a general consensus that everyones installation was behaving like yours then I think you would very quickly see plenty of threads here!

So my suggestion is look at your hardware and debug it properly.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: gazzzman on May 31, 2008, 11:01:21 am
my USB soundcard gives 5.1 just fine...
but TBH I would not recommend using USB soundcards at all anyhow..
I do suffer breakup on sound.. and this is entirely a soundcard problem it is intermittent and very annoying!
to the point I am about to scrap the MD because the onboard sound is unsupported and I don't know enough to fix it (:
core stability is ENTIRELY hardware Dependant in a stock installation!
my biggest gripe at the moment is MythTV or VDR..
Myth is not set up to use in the UK (surprising considering at least one core Dev lives here (Mark))
the only REAL issue in the UK with Myth now is the XML grabber setup
40+ installs on.. (Lmce + MythDora + MythBuntu) I have not once got the EPG to work properly...
as to the Alpha blending.. it IS pretty but I cannot use it because several lists/menus I cannot read because of the background images!!
but really to end as I said earlier stability should really not be an issue!
try running the core on it's own for a few days...
have a great weekend everyone!!
Gazzzman


Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on May 31, 2008, 04:48:25 pm
Well, I'm using ubuntu now with mythv and it seems to be working great.  I really didn't know where to start looking for a hardare problem for the freezing.  All my hardware works in a normal kubuntu install, so I figured that linuxmce would have the same compatibility.  But the fact remains that ubuntu doesn't lock up randomly and regular mythtv can change my digital tuner to analog without freezing.  I'll come back and try the next release.  But when it does and if I still have the freezing problem, how do I determine which peiece of hardware is causing it?
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on May 31, 2008, 05:26:47 pm
Hooray! Another "LinuxMCE ate my baby" thread.

Not sure what your point is, as I cant be bothered to read that much whining in one post.  But here at LinuxTag we set up a booth like a small apartment in only a few hours (in spite of several hardware issues), so...  ::)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on May 31, 2008, 07:47:38 pm
Hooray! Another "LinuxMCE ate my baby" thread.

Not sure what your point is, as I cant be bothered to read that much whining in one post.  But here at LinuxTag we set up a booth like a small apartment in only a few hours (in spite of several hardware issues), so...  ::)

Great... best wishes for LinuxTag ;-)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: gazzzman on May 31, 2008, 07:51:47 pm
strange but true...
if we where discussing Vista MCE or XP MCE everyone would be saying..."it is because you are using crap software!)
I don't think LMCE ate anyones baby... just no one has any time to have babies due to all the time spent trying to find a combination of hardware that works!
people ARE having real problems... name calling on both sides are not helping to cure them!
chill people!
I understand that most of the Devs are working like hell for little thanks to get things done!
I also understand just how frustrating things get (especially if you where sold from some video and have never used Linux before)
and there ARE problems with LMCE that are outside the control of the dev team too.. and there will probably always be some!
and nobody gets paid to support anybody!
leave a nasty post you deserve what you get...
but while some of these "LMCE ate my baby" posts are annoying.. they do contain valid points!
(in some respects more than can be said for this post :)  )
it would just be nice to see people being nice to one another.. thats all :)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: jmcrtp on June 01, 2008, 12:07:37 am
I'm a newbie although I've done about 20 installations now while demoing, and finally deciding to go with it and loading my current installation.  It does have some minor issues, but I'm sold on 0710.  There are a few things I want to see fixed but I am willing to wait.  Thanks to all the developers, you are doing a fantastic job thus far.  This is a very complex operating system, not a simple little program.  It is going to take time to get the bugs out. 

How often do new releases come out?  I'm running 0710 rc2, will there be rc3, rc4 or 07xx next?  Any ETA?  I'm just curious since some of my issues will likely get fixed in new versions.

Also I have had lockups, but not when I'm using the system.  Typically so far I have had it happen after a few days of operation.  The next morning I turn on the TV and can't get video from the Nvidia card.  I see HD activity on an off so the system hasn't locked up, just can't get video so I have to power cycle.  I did hit the connect button on my fiire chief and heard no beeps though, so that tells me something is not right with MCE.  I'll check the logs next time this happens.  Is everything contained in /var/log/messages?
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on June 01, 2008, 02:17:59 am
I'll admit that I was frustrated when I wrote my original post, but I will come back and try linuxmce again at the next release.  I'm pretty sure I didn't do any name calling either...  But I still haven't gotten an answer as to how I would go about checking hardware for compatibility.  Right now, I'm running ubuntu with mythtv installed ontop and set to run on startup.  Already, this setup has been on for longer than linuxmce ever made it without locking up.  It seems like I have linux compatible hardware, since ubuntu is running fine, but linuxmce didn't seem to like some piece of my hardware.  So how would I check compatibility?!

I should also note that linuxmce704 wouldn't even bootup on this rig, but 710 was able to get going and all, it just had the problems I listed before.  So kudos to the devs!  Like I originally said, I still really want to use linuxmce and will keep trying the new releases, but it's so hard to get help...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 01, 2008, 04:55:19 am
I'll admit that I was frustrated when I wrote my original post, but I will come back and try linuxmce again at the next release.

 I didn't have much luck [hell, any luck] with the 7.10 betas, and I haven't posted a peep since I left, but I'm actually in a position to try 7.10 release on a completely new, separate box before this becomes my new Mythbuntu 8.04 master frontend/backend. Should LinuxMCE actually run I'd be happy to go with it, but I'm not going to go dreaming just yet....

Quote
Already, this setup has been on for longer than linuxmce ever made it without locking up.  It seems like I have linux compatible hardware, since ubuntu is running fine, but linuxmce didn't seem to like some piece of my hardware.

 This was one of my main reasons why I had to give up on LinuxMCE.

 My equipment ran Ubuntu 7.10 just fine. Unfortunately, LinuxMCE locked up all the time. The exact same equipment ran MythBuntu 7.10 and now 8.04 just fine. Have NEVER had a lockup. I didn't understand that at all why the difference.

 I've learned a ton about MythTV over the last couple months. All 3 of my machines are working fine. I have even integrated X10 home automation into it... press one of 4 buttons on the remote and lights in the room do things. I want to swap out the master machine and upgrade it, but before I do, I'm planning on loading LinuxMCE onto the new box and play with it first, under circumstances where there's no pressure to get it working right away. I even have two NIC's this time ;-) I've run extra network cable and re-routed other cables and would have to reroute one final cable should things work out. At the same time, to provide diskless frontends with MythBuntu, the same network wiring scheme needs to be in place anyway.

 Should be interesting.

 If this doesn't go well (and I'm not expecting miracles) I will do what you're talking about. Check it out again after the next release, and so on, until it finally works. LinuxMCE was afterall what I originally wanted.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: gazzzman on June 02, 2008, 12:42:33 am
just as a point of interest really...
the box I tried to use for LMCE but had sound and networking hardware issues...
runs Kubuntu 710 fine out of the box (excepting the sound)
but won't run Mythbuntu at all!
either 710 or 804??
but is quite happy running Mythdora!!
still can't get any reasonable sense out of the EPG in the UK with ANY version of Myth
either using EIT or RT XML??
I DO wish TIVO would come back to the UK!
currently... "Sarah" is running the media side of things pretty reliably (with a few issues) but MythTV may as well not exist for the use it is to me!!
shame really!
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: chrisbirkinshaw on June 02, 2008, 11:15:03 am
I have been unable to get multichannel audio out working using an analog soundcard. When people say it works fine with optical/coax then they are correct, however you should be able to use a multichannel analog output like those found on most modern motherboards and have xine decode the 5.1. The LMCE AV wizard and the web interface both have a setting for multichannel analog output but it does not work. The xine config is always set to having a 2.0 speaker arrangement. Additionally many sound cards have non-standard names for the master output. Unfortunately there is no way to specify this in LMCE. As a result I am not able to change the sound level on any of my 3 MDs.

I have tried discussing these problems on the forms but get no answer so once I've had a bit more of a dig around and snooped in the code comments I'll probably file bug reports.

Chris

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: ddamron on June 02, 2008, 12:31:06 pm
Well guys,

As far as linuxMCE being ready for PRIME TIME, Our booth won TOP BOOTH at LinuxTAG!
We won a Nokia N810, then drew straws for it,
TSCHAK won the n810 (he deserves it)

they hinted at next year, us having 2 booths :)

well, if it's not ready for prime time, I'll eat my shorts.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 02, 2008, 01:54:30 pm
As far as linuxMCE being ready for PRIME TIME, Our booth won TOP BOOTH at LinuxTAG!
they hinted at next year, us having 2 booths :)
well, if it's not ready for prime time, I'll eat my shorts.

 Perhaps "ready for prime time" is up for interpretation then.

 My understanding of that term means LinuxMCE will load and run on a wide variety of hardware quite nicely. Ubuntu seems to be doing a pretty good job of this on its own, so many of us think if our equipment runs Ubuntu it should be able to run LinuxMCE too.

 My previous experience, and from what I'm seeing in the forums past and present, proves this just isn't happening... yet ;-)

 I'm excited to hear you guys won top booth, and I congratulate all who participated! When you see LinuxMCE in action it is a very impressive thing. I haven't totally given up on LinuxMCE. I'll probably keep trying the releases with various equipment until it finally kicks in.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on June 02, 2008, 02:52:19 pm
Seems to me that most of these issues are due to PEBKAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC).

We need help from people adding their experience to the wiki, not endless moaning on the forum how everything is not "ready for prime time" just because a few certain users have some issues setting things up right.  Not to mention that most can't even be bothered to look into their own (usually self inflicted) problems.

Now for all the "valid issues" reported in here, try asking for help instead of jumping on yet another "linuxmce ate my baby" bandwagon that is going nowhere fast.  Either stop acting like customers, or go here (http://fiire.com/support.php) and become one (without bothering us volunteers).

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 02, 2008, 03:40:51 pm
Seems to me that most of these issues are due to PEBKAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC).

 Hmmm, really? In my tech support days we used to say "Problem Lies Between Keyboard and Monitor" too, and in some cases that was true, but the one thing we did know was that the hardware and software worked, and it worked for thousands of people (I'm referring to being in tech support for an ISP).

 But come on now, it's attitude like this that is hurting the project! and we were regularly reminded not to think that PLBKAM. It does a dis-service for the company and the customer (I know, us LinuxMCE wannabe 'users' aren't paying customers).

 I was able to build a working MythBuntu 7.10 system using 3 different computers in half a day [and probably due to my experiences with LinuxMCE over 8 days previous to that]. That is great, but there were still some advanced issues I needed help with and there were some general questions I was interested in asking. In the MythBuntu forums I was able to ask those questions, no matter how silly you may think they may be, and in 9 out of 10 cases I was given a reply (or replies) with helpful information and I walked away with a warm fuzzy feeling about things.

 I added two "how-to" posts concerning setting up my external channel changer and one longer post on controlling some X10 equipment. I also respond to those asking questions giving assistance when I can. Those forums are very helpful!

 You seriously need to bring some of that warm, fuzzy feeling to these forums.

 You and I both know if you keep seeing the same thing from a poster over and over you can spot which ones are beyond help, and there will be some of those. But some of you seem all to quick to scare the newbies away. These forums need to be much more welcoming than it is.

 Aren't the forums the place to ask questions? Aren't the forums for sharing experiences, good or bad?

 I can say that over the last couple months I have noticed an improvement in attitude in the forums. Although I've been using MythBuntu, from 7.10 to 8.04, I have been lurking in the forums, as I intend to give LinuxMCE another shot from time to time. Am I a little concerned that I may find it difficult to get help should I need it? You betcha!

 New users will need some hand holding. This applies to pretty well all [large] software. Yes, you'll get a wide variety of people, some smarter than others, and you will see the same problems over and over, but if you have those answers documented, it doesn't take much time to say "Hi new user! Your problem has been discussed before, please go here <link> to resolve your issues and if you have any other problems let us know."

 
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on June 02, 2008, 06:45:09 pm
Seems to me that most of these issues are due to PEBKAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEBKAC).

 Hmmm, really? In my tech support days we used to say "Problem Lies Between Keyboard and Monitor" too, and in some cases that was true, but the one thing we did know was that the hardware and software worked, and it worked for thousands of people (I'm referring to being in tech support for an ISP).

 But come on now, it's attitude like this that is hurting the project! and we were regularly reminded not to think that PLBKAM. It does a dis-service for the company and the customer (I know, us LinuxMCE wannabe 'users' aren't paying customers).

How nice of you to compare volunteering here with a payed job elsewhere, and then turn around to say you're aware that it totally does not apply.


I was able to build a working MythBuntu 7.10 system using 3 different computers in half a day [and probably due to my experiences with LinuxMCE over 8 days previous to that]. That is great, but there were still some advanced issues I needed help with and there were some general questions I was interested in asking. In the MythBuntu forums I was able to ask those questions, no matter how silly you may think they may be, and in 9 out of 10 cases I was given a reply (or replies) with helpful information and I walked away with a warm fuzzy feeling about things.

Asking for help is not the same thing as starting offensive threads about "how much mythbuntu sucks", please do try it and let's see what kind of feeling you'll get from that.


I added two "how-to" posts concerning setting up my external channel changer and one longer post on controlling some X10 equipment. I also respond to those asking questions giving assistance when I can. Those forums are very helpful!

And then they gave you a medal right?


You seriously need to bring some of that warm, fuzzy feeling to these forums.

First of all I don't "need" to do anything, but you're free to spread that "warm, fuzzy feeling" around as much as you like.  Oh that's right you only lurk here until the next bandwagon comes along to jump on.


You and I both know if you keep seeing the same thing from a poster over and over you can spot which ones are beyond help, and there will be some of those. But some of you seem all to quick to scare the newbies away. These forums need to be much more welcoming than it is.

I'd say just about anybody who jumps on these bandwagons is beyond help.  Unfortunately LinuxMCE isn't for everyone, might as well be realistic about that before they start more nonsense threads like this.  And thanks for sharing your opinion but as far as I'm concerned these forums are fine the way they are.


Aren't the forums the place to ask questions? Aren't the forums for sharing experiences, good or bad?

I wasn't aware that "linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!" was actually a question.  And whining isn't really the same as "sharing your experience", shame you can't tell the difference (although hardly surprising).


I can say that over the last couple months I have noticed an improvement in attitude in the forums. Although I've been using MythBuntu, from 7.10 to 8.04, I have been lurking in the forums, as I intend to give LinuxMCE another shot from time to time. Am I a little concerned that I may find it difficult to get help should I need it? You betcha!

Yeah I agree, there have been a lot fewer of these whining threads lately.  Now am I a little indifferent about other people's (especially lurkers) overly-dramatized concerns?  You betcha!


New users will need some hand holding. This applies to pretty well all [large] software. Yes, you'll get a wide variety of people, some smarter than others, and you will see the same problems over and over, but if you have those answers documented, it doesn't take much time to say "Hi new user! Your problem has been discussed before, please go here <link> to resolve your issues and if you have any other problems let us know."

As the saying goes: Nothing is to much trouble for somebody who doesn't have to do it himself...

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 02, 2008, 07:36:41 pm
Quote
How nice of you to compare volunteering here with a payed job elsewhere, and then turn around to say you're aware that it totally does not apply.

 You missed my point, again. Are you here to help? Are the forums here to help? After your reply to my message, I'm beginning to wonder about that. Do I demand you help? Heck no!

Quote
Asking for help is not the same thing as starting offensive threads about "how much mythbuntu sucks", please do try it and let's see what kind of feeling you'll get from that.

 That is quite true. What was the reason those threads start again? Because some users get frustrated. Again, I suggest the forums are here to help those trying to utilize LinuxMCE.

Quote
And then they gave you a medal right?

 Right. I'm merely trying to show that I am more than happy to participate and help when I can. You prefer to make jokes about that for some reason. I don't feel it necessary to give you my resume, but let's just say I'm 43 years old and I have a brain and my mention of participating in the MythBuntu Forums is meant to show that I can be helpful too, but I, like many others before me and those to come after me, will need assistance with LinuxMCE, and we would appreciate being dealt with respectfully, even if we ask the same questions that others before us have asked. We are newbies afterall. I spent a great deal of time researching the forums and wiki BEFORE I jumped in. I didn't just download the ISO, install it, and say, what a piece of crap. jeez.

Quote
First of all I don't "need" to do anything, but you're free to spread that "warm, fuzzy feeling" around as much as you like.  Oh that's right you only lurk here until the next bandwagon comes along to jump on.

It's comments like the above that I'm trying to point out do nobody any good. [shakes head]

If you search for my posts, you will see I struggled with my attempted setup and gave up. I've set up MythBuntu on 3 stations with great success. I've learned more. I have kept up with the forums here to see if any of my issues came up with other users, and to see if there were any solutions, and to see what new developments were going on with the project.

I don't call that waiting for the next "let's bash LinuxMCE" thread. I call it being smart, stepping back, watching, listening and learning, before jumping into LinuxMCE a second time. You seem to want to make light of my approach and I don't know why. You make fun but yet complain nobody does anything for themselves. I can tell you that I have done plenty on my own, but I still need help.

Quote
I wasn't aware that "linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!" was actually a question.  And whining isn't really the same as "sharing your experience", shame you can't tell the difference (although hardly surprising).

 You are correct, that isn't a question.

 I'm not back here to whine, and yes, I can tell the difference between the two issues you stated above. Please stop thinking of me as a useless idiot, and any of the other newbies that run into troubles.

 I've regrouped, I've done "more studying", I've spent more money on more equipment, I've gained working knowledge over the last few months, and I'm anxious to experiment with LinuxMCE. Do you want to pound me into the ground and make me go away?

 My posts to this thread are meant to make the experience here more pleasureable. If you decide you'd rather make fun of new users and drive them away, that is your choice, but that would be sad as you seem to have a vast amount of knowledge about LinuxMCE and I, and others, would certainly prefer to see you with your hand out, welcoming us, teaching us, again, when you can, when you have time.

 Perhaps we are both after the same things, we are just approaching it from opposite ends?

 P.S.

 My new machine arrived this morning and I'm just now walking through the screens with Sarah. I hope, when I have a question, somebody with knowledge or experience in these forums can offer a helping hand... maybe that will even come from you? Here's hopin.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on June 02, 2008, 07:56:00 pm
Quote
How nice of you to compare volunteering here with a payed job elsewhere, and then turn around to say you're aware that it totally does not apply.

 You missed my point, again. Are you here to help? Are the forums here to help? After your reply to my message, I'm beginning to wonder about that. Do I demand you help? Heck no!

Quote
Asking for help is not the same thing as starting offensive threads about "how much mythbuntu sucks", please do try it and let's see what kind of feeling you'll get from that.

 That is quite true. What was the reason those threads start again? Because some users get frustrated. Again, I suggest the forums are here to help those trying to utilize LinuxMCE.

Quote
And then they gave you a medal right?

 Right. I'm merely trying to show that I am more than happy to participate and help when I can. You prefer to make jokes about that for some reason. I don't feel it necessary to give you my resume, but let's just say I'm 43 years old and I have a brain and my mention of participating in the MythBuntu Forums is meant to show that I can be helpful too, but I, like many others before me and those to come after me, will need assistance with LinuxMCE, and we would appreciate being dealt with respectfully, even if we ask the same questions that others before us have asked. We are newbies afterall. I spent a great deal of time researching the forums and wiki BEFORE I jumped in. I didn't just download the ISO, install it, and say, what a piece of crap. jeez.

Quote
First of all I don't "need" to do anything, but you're free to spread that "warm, fuzzy feeling" around as much as you like.  Oh that's right you only lurk here until the next bandwagon comes along to jump on.

It's comments like the above that I'm trying to point out do nobody any good. [shakes head]

If you search for my posts, you will see I struggled with my attempted setup and gave up. I've set up MythBuntu on 3 stations with great success. I've learned more. I have kept up with the forums here to see if any of my issues came up with other users, and to see if there were any solutions, and to see what new developments were going on with the project.

I don't call that waiting for the next "let's bash LinuxMCE" thread. I call it being smart, stepping back, watching, listening and learning, before jumping into LinuxMCE a second time. You seem to want to make light of my approach and I don't know why. You make fun but yet complain nobody does anything for themselves. I can tell you that I have done plenty on my own, but I still need help.

Quote
I wasn't aware that "linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!" was actually a question.  And whining isn't really the same as "sharing your experience", shame you can't tell the difference (although hardly surprising).

 You are correct, that isn't a question.

 I'm not back here to whine, and yes, I can tell the difference between the two issues you stated above. Please stop thinking of me as a useless idiot, and any of the other newbies that run into troubles.

 I've regrouped, I've done "more studying", I've spent more money on more equipment, I've gained working knowledge over the last few months, and I'm anxious to experiment with LinuxMCE. Do you want to pound me into the ground and make me go away?

 My posts to this thread are meant to make the experience here more pleasureable. If you decide you'd rather make fun of new users and drive them away, that is your choice, but that would be sad as you seem to have a vast amount of knowledge about LinuxMCE and I, and others, would certainly prefer to see you with your hand out, welcoming us, teaching us, again, when you can, when you have time.

 Perhaps we are both after the same things, we are just approaching it from opposite ends?

 P.S.

 My new machine arrived this morning and I'm just now walking through the screens with Sarah. I hope, when I have a question, somebody with knowledge or experience in these forums can offer a helping hand... maybe that will even come from you? Here's hopin.


One of us is missing the point, but I don't think it's me. 
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 02, 2008, 07:59:18 pm
Quote
One of us is missing the point, but I don't think it's me. 

 Enough of this already. Let's get back to our regularly scheduled program... having fun with LinuxMCE! :-)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: aaron.b on June 03, 2008, 12:28:55 am
Re: your idea of ready for prime time = "LinuxMCE will load and run on a wide variety of hardware quite nicely"...

Hardware compatibility is a major challenge with Linux itself because many hardware vendors don't publicly release the specs for their hardware, nor do they release Linux drivers.  This is nothing particular to LinuxMCE.  LinuxMCE has a ton of it's own code (ie Pluto copyright), in addition to 3rd party FOSS (like MythTV), and the underlying foundation that Linux/Kubuntu provides.  Repeatedly we heard reports of "[whatever/Myth/Xine/MPlayer/Asterisk/etc.] works fine in Kubuntu natively, but not in LinuxMCE".  I heard this a lot especially re: MythTV.  Many, many, many times we tried to diagnose the issues by getting the exact same hardware the user reported he was using, and trying to run [whatever] both within LinuxMCE and on a clean Kubuntu install without LinuxMCE.  Nearly every time we ran into the same thing: The same problem existed both with and without LinuxMCE, and LinuxMCE had no effect.

Reading your post, it really doesn't sound like LinuxMCE could be causing the things you report...  Specifically:

1.) surround sound
LinuxMCE doesn't include it's own media player.  It uses Xine and MPlayer.  Both Xine and MPlayer talk directly to alsa with no intervention from LinuxMCE.  It doesn't make sense that LinuxMCE could have any effect here.  I've reproduced lots of issues with sound cards, and I know that some sound card drivers are pretty flaky, but I've never seen the sound behave worse with LinuxMCE than without it.  RE: "linuxmce doesn't change volume", a message is sent to app server, which calls the code:
void App_Server::CMD_Vol_Down(int iRepeat_Command,string &sCMD_Result,Message *pMessage)
which calls:
snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_volume(m_MixerElem, (snd_mixer_selem_channel_id_t)0, Volume);

That's a function call in Alsa, afaik, and it sets the master volume in alsa.  So I don't think LinuxMCE does anything special with the volume.  As far as surround sound, if you have the same settings in alsa & xine.conf both with and without LinuxMCE, it doesn't make sense that it works without LinuxMCE but not with it.

2.) ui2 w/ alpha blending

RE: "If we can't fix the nvidia driver, then we need a work around."  The video tearing is *awful*, and has prevented us from a lot of commercial deployments.  But it's always there when you turn on compositing, whether or not you use LinuxMCE.  And it's in the nVidia drivers.  We've nagged nVidia for 2 years to fix it, but they don't.  And the ATI, Via, Intel video drivers don't work well either, again with or without LinuxMCE.  The only "solution" we've found is to use non-X86 hardware (like a Sigma 8634-based set top box), where you get commercially licensed drivers.  This is very unfortunately because this hardware isn't available to the FOSS community.  But if you turn off alpha blending (ie ui2 with masking) most of the bad video tearing goes away and the video is acceptable.

3.) problems with mythtv

>> While watching tv, I can press "y" to change tuners...

LinuxMCE includes the stock MythTV binaries.  We don't modify them.  It doesn't make sense that this would work in a stock MythTV install and not with LinuxMCE

4.) random lockups!

All of LinuxMCE's modules run in user space and cannot cause lockups like you describe; they can cause core dumps, but not hard locks.  Every time I've seen lockups like you describe, it's something at the low-level, like kernel modules or drivers.  And 99% of the time it's the nVidia drivers.  I always have had the same lockups both with and without LinuxMCE.  The newest nVidia drivers, 169.12, have fixed some bugs, but seem more prone to lockups than some of the prior versions, though for some reason they're pretty stable on the 7025 chipsets.  For some reason, the drivers that came with LinuxMCE 0704 worked very solid with the nForce 6050 chipsets.  Now, the nVidia drivers in 0710 seem to lockup sometimes on the 6050's, but they are solid on the 7025's.  We have about a dozen test machines that run in constant stress-test loops day and night, so we're able to see clear patterns.

>> It just couldn't hold itself together.  Sad day....

The frustrating part about the post is that you're blaming LinuxMCE, but I didn't see anything concrete that gave real evidence that the problems were caused by LinuxMCE.  If there was a back trace, or a log, or something like that to show that LinuxMCE did something, then we'd be able to fix it.  For example, before the system hard locks there's usually a kernel panic.  If you connect the serial port to another console you can get a dump of the stack trace when that happens.  We've reseached hundreds and hundreds of kernel panics.  Most of the time it's the nVidia drivers.  Sometimes I've seen problems with the drivers for sata, ethernet, usb, firewire, etc.  But I've never once seen anything in LinuxMCE cause a lockup.

In my home I'm using as my core/hybrid a system based on the msi k9ngm3.  It has been running continually, used several times a day, since 0710 was released without ever crashing.  The main caveat is I don't use the TV capture because I've found the itvtv drivers lock up all the time. 

I agree with you completely that it's very important to the future of LinuxMCE that it runs on a variety of hardware.  And if you can report something specific that LinuxMCE is doing, we can get it fixed.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on June 03, 2008, 03:37:20 pm
Hey, that's great news about the booth.  I'm just so disappointed that I didn't get the same plug and play experience that some of you guys are talking about.  I did follow the hardware documentation on the wiki, but alas, no dice.  I chose all my hardware based on what was written there.  Maybe we need better hardware documentation.  I guess I have to build an exact replica of a known-to-work system which is doable, just kinda lame.  I'm still hoping someone can tell me which aspect of my system was causing the hard lockups. 

here are my exact specs

hdd:HITACHI Deskstar 7K160 HDS721616PLAT80 (0Y30002) 160GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA133
cpu:Intel Pentium 4 631 Cedar Mill 3.0GHz LGA 775 Single-Core Processor Model BX80552631
input:Microsoft 65X-00024 OEM Black USB Wireless Standard Optical Desktop 700 Mouse Included
dvd:ASUS Black ATAPI/E-IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616A3
mobo:ECS 671T-M (V1.0) LGA 775 SiS 671 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
video:MSI NX8400GS-TD512E GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16
ram:pqi 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) Desktop Memory Model MAC42GUOE
case:Broadway Com Corp 204-4HA-S Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450W Power Supply
tv tuner:HauppaugeWinTV-PVR 500 MCE Personal Video Recorder(White box) PCI Interface
remote:fiire chief gyration remote
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 03, 2008, 03:46:30 pm
I'm still hoping someone can tell me which aspect of my system was causing the hard lockups. 
here are my exact specs
video:MSI NX8400GS-TD512E GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16

 My first core used the GeForce 8400 GS card too. My core locked up all the time. It's the only item we have in common.

 My new core uses a EVGA GeForce 7200 GS (fanless) (so does my living-room media director). No issues so far on the core, and I haven't tried the living-room machine as MD in my current setup, although it did work fine before. I'm using an ECS nVidia GeForce6100SM-M motherboard in my new core and the living-room MD box. Core uses an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+ Socket AM2 chip with 2GB RAM. Living room uses 4200+ with 1GB RAM.



 Perhaps you have time to do a fresh install using a different video card?

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: mmnogueira on June 03, 2008, 08:25:12 pm
... Unfortunately LinuxMCE isn't for everyone, ...

This is not what the demo video says, and I'm glad that you recognize it. Not that I'm unhappy with LMCE, but I think that a version specificaly designed for professional assisted installation, configuration and maintenance would give this extraordinay system a boost.

Best regards,

Marcos Nogueira
S. Paulo - Brazil
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: radmofo on June 03, 2008, 08:46:16 pm
For those who like to bash...call a pro and get an in house quote for automation etc...
2 words for everyone "ITS FREE" 
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: freymann on June 03, 2008, 09:01:24 pm
This is not what the demo video says, and I'm glad that you recognize it. Not that I'm unhappy with LMCE, but I think that a version specificaly designed for professional assisted installation, configuration and maintenance would give this extraordinay system a boost.

 Hmmm, isn't that what Fiire does? http://fiire.com/index.php (http://fiire.com/index.php)

 And this forum participant

Andrew Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

Pre-configured LMCE Systems to order;
http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/Convergenthome

 May not be much help to you in Brazil though... but there are certainly options available out there.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on June 04, 2008, 12:31:31 am
...
I'm still hoping someone can tell me which aspect of my system was causing the hard lockups. 
...

That could very well be due to hardware problems, like overheating or a bad PSU for example.

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: cirion on June 06, 2008, 11:34:48 pm
The newest nVidia drivers, 169.12, have fixed some bugs, but seem more prone to lockups than some of the prior versions, though for some reason they're pretty stable on the 7025 chipsets.
That is not the newest driver...

Version: 173.14.05
Operating System: Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T)
Release Date: May 28, 2008

Version: 173.14.05
Operating System: Linux x86
Release Date: May 28, 2008
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: 1audio on June 07, 2008, 06:19:35 am
Newest driver and another round of bugs to discover. But it may be better. Try it and let us know if it works. I'll try it  next week if time permits.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: jeff_rigby on June 30, 2008, 05:38:11 pm
I'm having lockup problems with the last two versions.  Before that, other problems but no lockups.  It's a screen and mouse lockup, the rest of LINUXMCE appears to be working.  Within a few seconds of fast scrolling or copying many .mp3 files over the network while playing and slow scrolling, it will lock it up.

Again, recommended hardware that was absolutely stable prior to the last two version changes.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: 1audio on June 30, 2008, 08:24:05 pm
Try looking in from another system, run top ans start the process that's locking the system. It may just be stalled as it trys to catch up, or it could be an xorg failure- usually shown by 100% xorg in Top.
However you may just be asking for more than it can do at once.
Check the memory available for video if you are using an internal graphics controller. It should be at least 128MB and for 1080p it should be 256MB for reliable performance.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 07, 2008, 10:21:47 pm
So, the only help that I've gotten on hardware issues is that my video card might be the culprit.  I'm going to make a post asking for people to post the ways they have beaten hard-lock ups.  Also if you want, please post any solutions that you've seen here.  I can't think of any other way to approach this since I really want to use linuxmce, but cant find a solution
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on July 08, 2008, 07:04:07 am
So, the only help that I've gotten on hardware issues is that my video card might be the culprit.  I'm going to make a post asking for people to post the ways they have beaten hard-lock ups.  Also if you want, please post any solutions that you've seen here.  I can't think of any other way to approach this since I really want to use linuxmce, but cant find a solution

Does your Core lockup completely? ie no external ssh, no mouse pointer and totally frozen?...or can you ssh in? If the latter then it looks like an X lockup. This seems to affect some combinations of nVidia card and the nVidia driver shipped in LinuxMCE-0710. I cant say we have a handle on this yet... as its very very rare.

If the former then it could be any number of things... bad RAM, bad processor, overheating processor, badly seated processor or RAM, motherboard track fracture... etc etc etc etc etc.

Hope this helps

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: royw on July 08, 2008, 09:51:48 am
My problem was thermal.  I ended up reversing the top fan to make in an input fan then adding a side exhaust fan.  It's been rock solid for months now.
My theory is one of the motherboard chips was not getting enough airflow.  No proof, but I did notice the southbridge was the hottest component when I used an IR thermometer.

I failed at all other attempts to capture info on the lockup.  lm-sensors didn't show abnormal temps, couldn't find any hint in the logs.

HTH,
Roy
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: rrambo on July 08, 2008, 04:07:58 pm
So, the only help that I've gotten on hardware issues is that my video card might be the culprit.  I'm going to make a post asking for people to post the ways they have beaten hard-lock ups.  Also if you want, please post any solutions that you've seen here.  I can't think of any other way to approach this since I really want to use linuxmce, but cant find a solution

Does your Core lockup completely? ie no external ssh, no mouse pointer and totally frozen?...or can you ssh in? If the latter then it looks like an X lockup. This seems to affect some combinations of nVidia card and the nVidia driver shipped in LinuxMCE-0710. I cant say we have a handle on this yet... as its very very rare.

If the former then it could be any number of things... bad RAM, bad processor, overheating processor, badly seated processor or RAM, motherboard track fracture... etc etc etc etc etc.

Hope this helps

All the best

Andrew

Well, I'm back.. not that anyone cares or anything.. ;-)...  I've taken a break from linuxmce for quite some time...  I was having too many issues...  strangley, all my problems started with the 7.10 betas as 7.04 never really gave me any problems..  video problems.. random lockups....  etc...

I'm giving it another shot with 7.10...  I've replace the my cpu (Sempron 3000+) with a Athlon 64 x2 5200+ and took the 1GB stick out and put in 2 new 1GB sticks...

I installed last night and got most of it configured..  I'm going to finish it up this afternoon and test it out... I will say that I've been running ubuntu 7.10 and 8.04 running XBMC/linux all this time with no hardware problems...  no video problems (Nvidia 6150, dvi out), no audio problems (spdif out), and no lock ups with my hardware running xbmc for linux under gutsy or hardy..
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 10, 2008, 07:06:05 am
I thought I had made some progress by using the dvi output on my video card, but I ran into a problem.  My movies seemed too dark, so I tried running it through the vga again and the darkness was gone.  However, after about 30 mins of a movie, HARD LOCK!  rebooted and couldn't even get past loading screens without the comp locking.  So, reinstalled and am still getting lock ups.  hmm, I guess I just have to keep installing until I find that clutch install.  I think that the dvi output did have some effect though.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: rrambo on July 10, 2008, 04:51:43 pm
I thought I had made some progress by using the dvi output on my video card, but I ran into a problem.  My movies seemed too dark, so I tried running it through the vga again and the darkness was gone.  However, after about 30 mins of a movie, HARD LOCK!  rebooted and couldn't even get past loading screens without the comp locking.  So, reinstalled and am still getting lock ups.  hmm, I guess I just have to keep installing until I find that clutch install.  I think that the dvi output did have some effect though.

Interesting..  same thing happened to me..  a hard lock..  had to reboot, then during screen generation, another hard lock...  rebooted again..  same thing, hard lock during screen generating...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 10, 2008, 04:57:40 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: rrambo on July 11, 2008, 02:50:25 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: seth on July 11, 2008, 07:26:30 pm
 :)
@rrambo

try disabling the flickr screensaver. Occasionally when I get lock-ups, I disable it, and the lockups go away.
You can do this from the "Files&Media" tab at the top of the webadmin.
 > Screensaver
 > Disable Flickr Script
 > Reload Screensaver

Just a thought.

Regards,

Seth
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 12, 2008, 12:12:24 am
Zaerc's hint is not all that bad. Thermal issues are often a cause of lockups. Seth, I don't know whats used by xbmc or your other linux, but we run the standard ubuntu kernel with the nvidia drivers on top. As LinuxMCE runs completely in the userspace, there is no way to HARD lockup the machine without hitting a linux kernel bug or some nvidia driver bug. The chance for the former is very low, but the nvidia binary drivers are known to severly harm the stability of a linux system. As we use OpenGL pretty much all the time (even in the photo screensaver), the graphic chipset gets warm and needs proper cooling. We also have a higher chance of hitting a bug in the NVidia stack because of that.

Does your machine also crash when you stop X?

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: colinjones on July 12, 2008, 01:18:37 am
When I have had lock ups - only since RC2 - it is probably just the interface locking which can make it difficult to get back in and so seem like a "hard" lock. But on at least one occasion I could absolutely verify that the core was still routing traffic normally between internal and external LANs so it definitely was not a real "hard" lock. The other occasions, I wasn't able to test this. But on at least 2-3 occasions the lock up seemed "harder" :) and the LEDs on my keyboard were flashing.....

Hard or soft, I definitely feel that RC2 is significantly more unstable even than RC1, and definitely more than b3/4 (which I spent more time on) Don't know why - gut says TV card, VDR or nVidia drivers, but my gut says a lot of things I don't listen to! There are many other reports I have read that suggest a connection with RC2, but nothing definitive.

BTW, yes I have rebuilt a few times. Started on AMD64 and have now moved to i386 for the last couple of builds...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 12, 2008, 01:40:18 am
sorry, feelings don't help here. If the machine really locks up, enable kernel crash dumps to analyze it.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 12, 2008, 04:29:14 am
Ok, I'm in the same boat as rrambo in that my system temp is fine when running non-linuxmce operating systems.  Another post said that my video card is overheating?  Come on.  My comp temperature is fine.  I have 2 fans blowing air in and 2 blowing out.  Not to mention that this computer is in the basement, on the floor, which is always cool. 

Either way, I want to help redeem myself.  I can't program, but I can document my hardware usage and compatibility, and tend to build a new computer every once in a while.  I'd be willing to test linuxmce and document, but I don't know how.  I tried adding to the wiki, but I have no idea how to do that.  I've never done that sort of thing.  Anyone help? 

For now, linuxMCE won't work on my box and I've come to accept that after lots of reinstalls and tweaking.  But I'll keep trying every new release until it starts working reliably on hardware recommended in the wiki.  Until that glorious day, I'll be using mythtv+ubuntu 8.04, which by the way, runs at a cool 35C at peak usage.  Seriously, you want me to get water cooling? 
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on July 12, 2008, 10:06:23 am
When I have had lock ups - only since RC2 - it is probably just the interface locking which can make it difficult to get back in and so seem like a "hard" lock. But on at least one occasion I could absolutely verify that the core was still routing traffic normally between internal and external LANs so it definitely was not a real "hard" lock. The other occasions, I wasn't able to test this. But on at least 2-3 occasions the lock up seemed "harder" :) and the LEDs on my keyboard were flashing.....

Hard or soft, I definitely feel that RC2 is significantly more unstable even than RC1, and definitely more than b3/4 (which I spent more time on) Don't know why - gut says TV card, VDR or nVidia drivers, but my gut says a lot of things I don't listen to! There are many other reports I have read that suggest a connection with RC2, but nothing definitive.

BTW, yes I have rebuilt a few times. Started on AMD64 and have now moved to i386 for the last couple of builds...

If your Core is still routing traffic then its almost certainly an nVidia binary driver issue and X has crashed (try ssh'ing in from another machine)...see my earlier post in this thread where I mention this.

If you get 'two LED's on your keyboard' flashing then that is a real 'hard lock'... and i see this now and then on my Kubuntu 8.04 desktop machine.

We use a mix of i945GNT mobo's (we sometimes use these in bigger racked Cores where we need as many slots as we can get) and various AMD2 based mobo's... apart from the nVidia driver lockups (which are pretty rare) we see excellent stability (and we have a lot of systems out there... so believe me if we had the reliability issues being discussed here I'd 100% know about it!!

So my somewhat simplistic and less than scientific assertion is therefore that whatever is causing the problem being discussed here has to be specific to the hardware/configurations being used.

Andrew
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: royw on July 12, 2008, 10:34:52 am
On my gentoo workstation/NFS file server, I've tickled a weird NVidia/JMicron bug. 

Basically the 8600GTS nvidia card and one of my Gigabyte X48-DQ6 motherboard's SATA controllers (JMicron 20360/20363) apparently share IRQ 16.  Something goes wrong about twice a week and the kernel (2.6.25) traps an error (irq 16: nobody cared), then disables IRQ 16.  This leaves the X server in a bad state (understatement) and disables the motherboard's ethernet ports.  The work-around I found googling (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115703 (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115703)) is to not use the JMicron controller.  I'm at +1 days trying this so don't know for sure if this is the solution/problem.

A quick check for this problem is to grep your /var/log/kern.log for "Disabling IRQ".

If you happen to notice what time a lockup occurred (after weeks the problem finally happened while I was using the system), then start examining the logs around that time and google any questionable entries.

HTH,
Roy
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: colinjones on July 12, 2008, 04:12:02 pm
Really quick post - just came home from the pub and had the keyboard LEDs flashing "hard" lock up issue again. Let me state with absolute certainty, I have not every had this issue with exactly the same hardware, no changes whatsoever, until RC2. I don't know how much more clear I can be. It never happened before. It happens "occasionally" now. That simple. Something has changed, and it is definitely Not overheating!


I realise that many of the experienced/devs here may not be experiencing this issue. But I'm not stupid, there are several others seeing the same thing, and it started between RC1 and RC2. At some point you have to accept the weight of averages suggest there possibly could be a connection...

BTW - I haven't installed any new nVidia drivers, and haven't for quite some time .... just the ones that come with 0710 (169). Also, my xorg is exactly as it has been for months...

The only thing I have changed is added the nVidia 7300GT card, but the lockups started before that.... not my biggest issue, but thought I should be clear about this...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 12, 2008, 06:12:09 pm
At some point you have to accept the weight of averages suggest there possibly could be a connection...
of course there is a possibility. But without hard facts/debugging there is no way to find out...

I'd start with removing every peripherals, tuners, whatever. Run the bare minimum and see if it is stable. Then add pieces and look where it breaks.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: colinjones on July 13, 2008, 12:22:21 am
Hari - so I'm thinking given that it happened again, maybe I can catch it and get the dump files. I noticed the other day a stack of dump files... can't remember which folder, but I can probably find it again. I haven't turned anything specific to debugging on, are these the files we are talking about, or do I need to turn something else on beforehand to capture the debugging info?
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 13, 2008, 12:40:19 am
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 13, 2008, 03:56:36 am
Ok, I'm chasing the gpu temperature idea.  So far, looks promising.  Although, I might have changed too many options at once.  I took out the tv tuner which was massive and was in very close proximity to the video card.  I also have a box fan blowing air into the open case.  So, if this setup works, the problem could have been temp, or the tuner card.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on July 13, 2008, 11:09:24 am
At some point you have to accept the weight of averages suggest there possibly could be a connection...
of course there is a possibility. But without hard facts/debugging there is no way to find out...

I'd start with removing every peripherals, tuners, whatever. Run the bare minimum and see if it is stable. Then add pieces and look where it breaks.

best regards,
Hari

I agree with Hari. Strip your system back to its most basic config and then run it like that and observer its stability. Then systematically add back single items and test again. Its what we do here when we're debugging a hardware config... it works if done rigorously.

Andrew
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: colinjones on July 13, 2008, 02:50:54 pm
Hari/Andrew - I don't have the luxury, the only system I have is in "production" otherwise I would do exactly that. I am in enough trouble at the best times from the other half :) I'm prepared to ride it out as it only happens once every couple of days or so (if I don't reboot) but I still need an answer to my previous question about getting dump files when it does happen.... do I need to enable anything, or are the files I mentioned sufficient to debug from? (the file names seem to mention process names from memory...)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 13, 2008, 03:41:03 pm
Hari/Andrew - I don't have the luxury, the only system I have is in "production" otherwise I would do exactly that. I am in enough trouble at the best times from the other half :) I'm prepared to ride it out as it only happens once every couple of days or so (if I don't reboot) but I still need an answer to my previous question about getting dump files when it does happen.... do I need to enable anything, or are the files I mentioned sufficient to debug from? (the file names seem to mention process names from memory...)
luxury? WTF, you put a broken system into production and now don't fix it but reboot it every other day?
I'm glad you don't run my infrastructure :-)

Yeah, you need to enable kernel crash dumps.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: colinjones on July 13, 2008, 04:23:59 pm
its only a little bit broken :) walking on eggshells here WAF-wise ... cool will look into how to enable those... thx
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: los93sol on July 13, 2008, 05:29:12 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...



...That was certainly warranted...I guess you didn't get enough attention when you were little or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.  Either way, back off and quit taking it out on the internet...nobody cares...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: niz23 on July 13, 2008, 06:07:25 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...



...That was certainly warranted...I guess you didn't get enough attention when you were little or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.  Either way, back off and quit taking it out on the internet...nobody cares...

ENOUGH!

This does not make the project getting forward.
I agree with both of you. Sort of.

In short:
Any hardware that is not listed as compatible may or may not work.
That mean your are on your own if you decide to use untested/unsupported hardware.
I most cases hardware similar to the supported ones will work out of the box but in other cases there is this "noname" manufacturer that does not know how to build decent hardware.
Have seen issues with Linux earlier were it just worked with Windows even though the chip/card was listed as working under linux.


Basic hardware fault searching:
Remove everything that you can remove except what is needed to make the machine running.
Enable kernel crasch dump.
Search on google or other forums if anyone else have run it on linux before or if there are known problems.


/niz23
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 13, 2008, 06:35:33 pm
[...] or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.

los93sol, you are a sick guy. That's really nothing to make fun about.

Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 13, 2008, 09:43:24 pm
[...] or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.

los93sol, you are a sick guy. That's really nothing to make fun about.

Hari

That is the problem when the thread gets derailed isnt it?

Lets move past all the BS (yes its BS) and try to get to the bottom of this issue. Do we need a clean (both in feelings and content) thread to start documenting all of this stuff?

Maybe every person who has this issue need to include in their post their system spec.

Mobo            -asus m2nvpn
Processor     -amd 4800
Video Card   -onboard 6150
Peripherals   -Hauppage PVR-500
                     -2nd Nic - realtek pci gigabit network adapter.
?

Lockup only occurs on my core/hybrid at the moment. After running TOP, xorg is @ 100% but all the other MD's, networking and orbiters work fine.


Maybe if we actually focus on something useful instead of putting down others we can get somewhere.

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: los93sol on July 14, 2008, 03:35:09 am
EDIT:  Back on topic
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 14, 2008, 05:50:00 am
OK, EVERYONE, I am the OP and one of the main issues I was complaining about were the hard lock ups I was getting.  well, I SOLVED IT, so I want to share how.

I First tried cpu and general system temperature as the cause of the lockups.  No dice.

Long story short, my GPU was overheating.  I had a large tv tuner card right next to the gpu fan, so it was overheating.  I moved the tuner card into the farther pci slot and presto!  I've had linuxMCE running solid for over a day with no lockups.  That's a first! 

So, check your video cards people.  Oh, and sorry for the complaining I did. 

Also, I made a youtube video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R5eh-JmZROU
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 14, 2008, 05:59:25 am
OK, EVERYONE, I am the OP and one of the main issues I was complaining about were the hard lock ups I was getting.  well, I SOLVED IT, so I want to share how.

I First tried cpu and general system temperature as the cause of the lockups.  No dice.

Long story short, my GPU was overheating.  I had a large tv tuner card right next to the gpu fan, so it was overheating.  I moved the tuner card into the farther pci slot and presto!  I've had linuxMCE running solid for over a day with no lockups.  That's a first! 

So, check your video cards people.  Oh, and sorry for the complaining I did. 

Also, I made a youtube video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R5eh-JmZROU

thats interesting. i use onboard video in my case, so is it still possible that chip is overheating?
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 14, 2008, 06:42:35 am
There's a good chance.  I heard someone say that the flickr images use open gl.  you know, they fade in and out, zoom, etc.  Thats all the time, plus playing you media, plus the 3 sorting, +whatever else.  Try disabling flickr and do you have any case fans?  They're cheap and if you can get some good airflow (like one on the side blowing in and one of the back blowing out), that might do it.

Also, my hard lockups happened at seemingly random times and both video and audio would lock.  If audio was playing, it would stutter and repeat over and over.  So, if your lockup look like that, you might want to investigate.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: totallymaxed on July 14, 2008, 10:01:00 am
There's a good chance.  I heard someone say that the flickr images use open gl.  you know, they fade in and out, zoom, etc.  Thats all the time, plus playing you media, plus the 3 sorting, +whatever else.  Try disabling flickr and do you have any case fans?  They're cheap and if you can get some good airflow (like one on the side blowing in and one of the back blowing out), that might do it.

Also, my hard lockups happened at seemingly random times and both video and audio would lock.  If audio was playing, it would stutter and repeat over and over.  So, if your lockup look like that, you might want to investigate.

Hmmm... well you may have an overheating problem but I doubt that Flickr is responsible for your lockups as such. We have Cores & MD's that have been up continuously for weeks at a time (and they are only shutdown because we need to reconfigure something not because they have locked/crashed/overheated).

Glad you have a stable system though!

Andrew
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 14, 2008, 10:34:35 am
thats interesting. i use onboard video in my case, so is it still possible that chip is overheating?

I have the MSI Medialive (onboad 6150) in a small case (Silverstone LC19). To reduce noise I did not mount the case fan. My AV Rack is a bit tight, so the venting holes on the side were blocked, too. I had graphic card lockups (X running at 100%, UI frozen, often at the 3d media selector). After pulling the case out of the rack the lockups disappeared.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 14, 2008, 02:12:10 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...



...That was certainly warranted...I guess you didn't get enough attention when you were little or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.  Either way, back off and quit taking it out on the internet...nobody cares...

And what exactly does my personal life have to do with anything here?  Sounds to me you're the one looking for attention, and I guess you are just one of those adults who likes to play "doctor" with little childeren too.  Either way, fuck off and quit whining on this forum...nobody cares...

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: rrambo on July 14, 2008, 02:41:08 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...



...That was certainly warranted...I guess you didn't get enough attention when you were little or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.  Either way, back off and quit taking it out on the internet...nobody cares...

And what exactly does my personal life have to do with anything here?  Sounds to me you're the one looking for attention, and I guess you are just one of those adults who likes to play "doctor" with little childeren too.  Either way, fuck off and quit whining on this forum...nobody cares...



You know typically I don't give a rat's ass about your sarcastic bullshit remarks, but unfortunately for the rest of the board today just happens to be the day I decided to stop smoking and I'm a little pissed off already..

Zaerc, go fuck yourself you miserable piece of shit... You don't offer anything useful to this forum...  9 out of 10 of your posts you're calling people lazy or whiners or telling them they don't know what they're doing..  the majority of your posts are just attacks on others...  I don't know what the fuck your problem is... I guess belittling others give some purpose to your useless, pathetic life..  You should have been banned long ago...  you definitely don't add any worth to this forum...  and if you NEED to work for linuxmce because you've posted 1000 useless replies, then fuck linuxmce too...  with people like you contributing to it, the software will never be more than a wet dream.....
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 14, 2008, 03:46:04 pm
Yeah yeah yeah, lmce is not ready because you guys have heat problems...  ::)

Learn how to build a decent PC, or give it a rest.

Zaerc..  you give it a rest...  it's not a heat issue on mine..  otherwise I would be getting lockups when running xbmc/linux on the same hardware..  opengl 3d rendering for the gui and playing HD videos with no problems..  I'm getting lockups with lmce from sitting cold all night turned off, booting up and not even getting anywhere to generate any heat...

There are odd hardware issues that only relate to lmce even when using supposedly "supported" hardware..  for those of you lucky enough to have picked the "right" hardware and never experience these issue I'm sure it's hard to believe it's a lmce problem...  but it is...  it's too widespread to be denied....

I already gave it a rest, but you fuckups have to keep bringing this stupid thread back up.  And yeah I find it very hard to believe this is a lmce specific problem when only a few individuals are having symptoms that seem similar but probably aren't even related. 

If your system fails during boot, then you obviously have a hardware problem, but instead of asking for help and guidance you people choose to bitch about it in this thread blaming lmce for your own incompetence...



...That was certainly warranted...I guess you didn't get enough attention when you were little or maybe some adult male figure in your life used to play "doctor" with you.  Either way, back off and quit taking it out on the internet...nobody cares...

And what exactly does my personal life have to do with anything here?  Sounds to me you're the one looking for attention, and I guess you are just one of those adults who likes to play "doctor" with little childeren too.  Either way, fuck off and quit whining on this forum...nobody cares...



You know typically I don't give a rat's ass about your sarcastic bullshit remarks, but unfortunately for the rest of the board today just happens to be the day I decided to stop smoking and I'm a little pissed off already..

Zaerc, go fuck yourself you miserable piece of shit... You don't offer anything useful to this forum...  9 out of 10 of your posts you're calling people lazy or whiners or telling them they don't know what they're doing..  the majority of your posts are just attacks on others...  I don't know what the fuck your problem is... I guess belittling others give some purpose to your useless, pathetic life..  You should have been banned long ago...  you definitely don't add any worth to this forum...  and if you NEED to work for linuxmce because you've posted 1000 useless replies, then fuck linuxmce too...  with people like you contributing to it, the software will never be more than a wet dream.....

Speaking of useless posts, If I were you I'd start smoking again...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: tschak909 on July 14, 2008, 04:13:11 pm
I'm going to have to step out, and defend Zaerc, here.

*deep-breath*

Zaerc is brutally honest.

If you don't like that, step away.

He has done more for this project, than 99% of you in here.

what is that, you say? I will give the most recent example....

as of last night, after many weeks of hard work alongside danielk22, he successfully booted up a copy of LinuxMCE on 0804 using an un-attended debootrapped chroot. This is the first step in a successful port, and will help us immensely on getting this project moving forward for 0810 (we will not be releasing the 0804 port officially, instead opting for the 0810 release.)...

He has been here, in the forums, tirelessly answering posts since almost day one. And if I were answering the same posts, over and over, by people who refused to read what has already been written, I would be increasingly cranky in my responses. Oh wait, I am. :)

So please, let's get back on topic.

-Thom
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 14, 2008, 04:49:34 pm
thats interesting. i use onboard video in my case, so is it still possible that chip is overheating?

I have the MSI Medialive (onboad 6150) in a small case (Silverstone LC19). To reduce noise I did not mount the case fan. My AV Rack is a bit tight, so the venting holes on the side were blocked, too. I had graphic card lockups (X running at 100%, UI frozen, often at the 3d media selector). After pulling the case out of the rack the lockups disappeared.

best regards,
Hari

Thats interesting. I have the the cpu fan and the case fan, though after your suggestion I may look at getting another one. Its hard to wrap my head around the fact that 0710 runs hotter  ;)

As for the rest of the bullshit in this thread, well nevermind. I suppose we'll just have to live with Admiral Rickover.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 14, 2008, 04:52:40 pm
as of last night, after many weeks of hard work alongside danielk22, he successfully booted up a copy of LinuxMCE on 0804 using an un-attended debootrapped chroot. This is the first step in a successful port, and will help us immensely on getting this project moving forward for 0810 (we will not be releasing the 0804 port officially, instead opting for the 0810 release.)...

He has been here, in the forums, tirelessly answering posts since almost day one. And if I were answering the same posts, over and over, by people who refused to read what has already been written, I would be increasingly cranky in my responses. Oh wait, I am. :)
you left out that he spent endless hours on sqlCVS (Zaerc did all the initial investigations, without him i'd never have gone that road).
Zaerc is a member of the core team and did more contributions than most of us. He is a bright and nice guy, and I'm proud to work with him in a team.

The funny thing is, most of the people who try to bash him, did not contribute anything, want "this Zaerc guy" to just shut up, but insist on posting senseless off topic comments themself. And even if Zaerc uses a lead pipe to try to smack clue into people, he always is helpful. If I were a noob, I'd follow his directions.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: tschak909 on July 14, 2008, 04:54:48 pm
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 14, 2008, 04:56:57 pm
Thats interesting. I have the the cpu fan and the case fan, though after your suggestion I may look at getting another one. Its hard to wrap my head around the fact that 0710 runs hotter  ;)
0710 uses another nvidia driver. That could be related. There also have been changes to the photo screensaver iirc. It uses bigger opengl planes now (correct me on that).

Quote
As for the rest of the bullshit in this thread, well nevermind. I suppose we'll just have to live with Admiral Rickover.
We are all human. We can't live on this planet without war and such, why should it work in this forum *LOL*

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 14, 2008, 04:57:48 pm
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 14, 2008, 05:27:54 pm
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 14, 2008, 09:25:18 pm
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.



Gee I wasn't aware this was actually a popularity contest.  And just in case you haven't noticed, the whole thread is bullshit, like your "Admiral Rickover" remark (whatever it is supposed to mean).  Have a look at the topic again,  and guess what... it was a heat problem, exactly like I suggested well over a month ago. ::)

Now can we finally get back on the topic of blaming lmce for our own incompetence so we don't have to look  into the actual problem? :P
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 15, 2008, 01:02:22 am
Well, when people just said "thermal problems", I checked the cpu and system temp.  Those were ok.  It wasn't until Hari mentioned the video card that I tried that out.  So thanks Hari!

And geez, there's alot of anger in this thread.  I didn't want it to end up like this, but hey, it got people attention and I actually got help, so what are you gonna do...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 15, 2008, 02:57:44 am
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.



Gee I wasn't aware this was actually a popularity contest.  And just in case you haven't noticed, the whole thread is bullshit, like your "Admiral Rickover" remark (whatever it is supposed to mean).  Have a look at the topic again,  and guess what... it was a heat problem, exactly like I suggested well over a month ago. ::)

Now can we finally get back on the topic of blaming lmce for our own incompetence so we don't have to look  into the actual problem? :P


Hey guess what asshat? Saying something is true without explaining yourself doesnt really translate into people falling over themselves to follow your advice.

And to be honest, it has degraded into bullshit because you cant seem to shut the fuck up.

BTW, Rickover is was known as a hardass who got results and shrunk (with help obviously) nuclear reactors to fit on ships. So it was a compliment. But i guess you cant seem to get that through your head. Wikipedia is your friend.


So in conclusion:
-Talking out of your ass is pretty much usless.
-Try to not assume everything is about you.
-Use Wikipedia
-Have a nice day
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: los93sol on July 15, 2008, 03:20:25 am
While I see both sides to the whole argument I do feel that the noobs deserve some slack (yes, I'm a noob too).  Mainly because while lots of things are documented, most things are not documented fully since there are so many variables to every install, and to be fair making the decision to go with LMCE is a major investment both in time and depending on how far you want to go, money also.  On that note, can we push for stronger moderation of these boards to avoid this kind of thing in the future?  I'd volunteer my time to help with that since there's not much else I am capable of doing at this point, but at least it's something and a positive start.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: tschak909 on July 15, 2008, 03:29:13 am
let's just take this thread...sit it to th side.... take some xanax...and chill.....

go to our happy places.... see our happy places? good.... deep breaths..... find your power animal.....

:P

:)
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: los93sol on July 15, 2008, 03:41:48 am
lol...alright back to trying to figure this security panel out for me


...a side note while I'm all off-topic...I got the HADesigner running now and have started on your screencasts, haven't gotten too far yet though, but they look promising, well done
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 15, 2008, 04:34:35 am
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.



Gee I wasn't aware this was actually a popularity contest.  And just in case you haven't noticed, the whole thread is bullshit, like your "Admiral Rickover" remark (whatever it is supposed to mean).  Have a look at the topic again,  and guess what... it was a heat problem, exactly like I suggested well over a month ago. ::)

Now can we finally get back on the topic of blaming lmce for our own incompetence so we don't have to look  into the actual problem? :P


Hey guess what asshat? Saying something is true without explaining yourself doesnt really translate into people falling over themselves to follow your advice.

And to be honest, it has degraded into bullshit because you cant seem to shut the fuck up.

BTW, Rickover is was known as a hardass who got results and shrunk (with help obviously) nuclear reactors to fit on ships. So it was a compliment. But i guess you cant seem to get that through your head. Wikipedia is your friend.


So in conclusion:
-Talking out of your ass is pretty much usless.
-Try to not assume everything is about you.
-Use Wikipedia
-Have a nice day

Thanks for the compliment, fucktard.  Try reading your own post a few times over, nice example of talking out of your ass you're setting there.
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Afkpuz on July 15, 2008, 05:57:46 am
Can we get a moderator to shut this thread?  I have overcome all the complaints I was griping about, so there is no reason to keep the thread open.  Thanks to all the people who pointed me in the right direction.  You too Zarec, thanks for putting up with me. 
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: golgoj4 on July 15, 2008, 07:01:46 pm
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.



Gee I wasn't aware this was actually a popularity contest.  And just in case you haven't noticed, the whole thread is bullshit, like your "Admiral Rickover" remark (whatever it is supposed to mean).  Have a look at the topic again,  and guess what... it was a heat problem, exactly like I suggested well over a month ago. ::)

Now can we finally get back on the topic of blaming lmce for our own incompetence so we don't have to look  into the actual problem? :P


Hey guess what asshat? Saying something is true without explaining yourself doesnt really translate into people falling over themselves to follow your advice.

And to be honest, it has degraded into bullshit because you cant seem to shut the fuck up.

BTW, Rickover is was known as a hardass who got results and shrunk (with help obviously) nuclear reactors to fit on ships. So it was a compliment. But i guess you cant seem to get that through your head. Wikipedia is your friend.


So in conclusion:
-Talking out of your ass is pretty much usless.
-Try to not assume everything is about you.
-Use Wikipedia
-Have a nice day

Thanks for the compliment, fucktard.  Try reading your own post a few times over, nice example of talking out of your ass you're setting there.

Dont get so pissy cause you wanna jump up and down screaming without explaining yourself. Besides, didnt you say before you had 'better things to do?'

Good point AFPutz, it pretty much crystallizes what some people here cant seem to figure out.

someone get that kid a xanex...
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 15, 2008, 07:32:30 pm
On that note, can we push for stronger moderation of these boards to avoid this kind of thing in the future?
that's strange. You are crying for moderation after you only contributed bashing and off topic posts to this thread (starting with http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=5363.msg33942#msg33942)?

This forum managed to run for months without moderators. Must have been the good old times.

Can we now please (with sugar and cherry on top) stay on topic?

Hari
Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: Zaerc on July 16, 2008, 12:00:17 am
oh, yeah.. that's right! damn, yeah, forgot about that. :)

(he also did the first experiments with uncoupling the DCERouter from the rest of the system for the clean core approach too...)

-Thom
yeah, he was the first to compile the trunk on a non-lmce system.


Ok, we get it. you love him. Funny thing about free will is not everyone agrees :) My point was, stay on topic and keep un needed commentary elsewhere. Thats all. 'The Bullshit' was referring to the whole shite - storm in general.



Gee I wasn't aware this was actually a popularity contest.  And just in case you haven't noticed, the whole thread is bullshit, like your "Admiral Rickover" remark (whatever it is supposed to mean).  Have a look at the topic again,  and guess what... it was a heat problem, exactly like I suggested well over a month ago. ::)

Now can we finally get back on the topic of blaming lmce for our own incompetence so we don't have to look  into the actual problem? :P


Hey guess what asshat? Saying something is true without explaining yourself doesnt really translate into people falling over themselves to follow your advice.

And to be honest, it has degraded into bullshit because you cant seem to shut the fuck up.

BTW, Rickover is was known as a hardass who got results and shrunk (with help obviously) nuclear reactors to fit on ships. So it was a compliment. But i guess you cant seem to get that through your head. Wikipedia is your friend.


So in conclusion:
-Talking out of your ass is pretty much usless.
-Try to not assume everything is about you.
-Use Wikipedia
-Have a nice day

Thanks for the compliment, fucktard.  Try reading your own post a few times over, nice example of talking out of your ass you're setting there.

Dont get so pissy cause you wanna jump up and down screaming without explaining yourself. Besides, didnt you say before you had 'better things to do?'

Good point AFPutz, it pretty much crystallizes what some people here cant seem to figure out.

someone get that kid a xanex...

Pissy, screaming... I have no idea what you are talking about.  And all you do around here is talk, out of your ass even.  Keep it up, it's mildly entertaining.

Title: Re: linuxMCE is still not ready for real life!
Post by: hari on July 16, 2008, 12:33:53 am
summary: thermal problems (GPU overheated)

closed.