LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: AdriaWave on February 11, 2008, 03:59:42 am

Title: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 11, 2008, 03:59:42 am
I just finished installing and uninstalling LinuxMCE 0710 beta. ??? ??? ???

And just in case I have did this on two different computers (amd 3800X2, 2gb, nvidia8600gt; and amd 4200X2, 1GB, ati 1250 integrated).

It was nothing like linuxmce vs winmce video, or like quick install, what was labeled on dvd iso. ??? ??? ???

During installation i could not set up resolution for my projector(hd 720, 16:9) on every 16:9 resolution test i was getting 800x600 output, even if I have chose less demanding gui, was slow responding(pathetic), and gui was looking bad, very ugly, so repulsive that it would be unusable even if everything else was working perfectly, my home madded ir wasn't working, even if its works under Kubuntu and win and suse ..., I could not setup mythtv backend, and that disgusting chick video during setup was completely unnecessary, it was replaying it self over and over again ..... ??? ??? ??? ???

I know that there is lots of work behind LinuxMCE and I was very enthusiastic about it, but now for me, now, this look like project without any perspective. :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: sk1 on February 11, 2008, 04:10:43 am
My mom always said if you don't have anything nice to say, at least come up with some constructive criticism instead of biatching and moaning... (pathetic)

skip
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: colinjones on February 11, 2008, 04:21:38 am
You are more than welcome to try Windows MCE instead. If you feel there is a lack of perspective, I think you may find the "perspective" you are looking for over there.

Did you listen to the video and read what it said? It states in several places, in text and verbally, that the experience of installing it will only be smooth (per the video) if you use the exact hardware, etc listed in the video. And there are caveats given on screen that extra configuration will be required if you use other hardware.

There are hundreds of people contributing to this forum that have it working very nicely, and are quite satisfied with it. I have no idea what you expected from the interface - if you have watched the video, then it could only be exactly what you expected!
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 11, 2008, 07:58:19 am
It does not mater what you think or say, fact is lmce is to much hardware
specific and 90% of people will have same problems that i have.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: golgoj4 on February 11, 2008, 08:11:48 am
It does not mater what you think or say, fact is lmce is to much hardware
specific and 90% of people will have same problems that i have.

I suppose its a new form of Darwinism. Those that can read instructions, and those that cant. How many of these complaint threads are we going to have?!?

Seriously, look into what you are looking for before you just make uninformed decisions. it goes a long way towards being satisfied with your choice.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: sk1 on February 11, 2008, 08:21:16 am
Seriously, look into what you are looking for before you just make uninformed decisions. it goes a long way towards being satisfied with your choice.

I think this is just the way we are breeding people in the world today.  People want instant gratification and don't want to work hard (or at all) to achieve it.  I've been reading about Pluto and now Linux MCE for the two years I've been planning my house and only today did I even get around to installing it for the first time ever.  And I had some problems, but I got through them and I am stronger for it.  Thank you and good night.

skip
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: tschak909 on February 11, 2008, 09:12:48 am
Speaking as someone who has taken it upon himself to take the whole system apart, and learn it for the expressed purpose of acting as a developer to make it better:

Yes. We have a lot of improvements to make. And we will make them, over time. We can do this faster, if we have more people who are at the very least, willing to test and provide constructive feedback as to the effect of this software on their systems....

Yes. The network setup is very specific. This is currently the nature of the beast, because this system requires itself to become the center of the network for a variety of reasons ranging from being able to detect network devices efficiently, to making sure that telephony is possible without being insane (SIP is notoriously difficult to get working properly traversing NAT, and the solutions for making this work have required all sorts of work-arounds... this avoids that problem entirely.)

Yes. We have a _VERY_ specific set of TV tuners, and graphic cards that we support. We need help developing device templates and plug and play scripts to fill in the appropriate information for LinuxMCE and MythTV and VDR, to keep everything consistent.

Yes. the UI is a bit warty in spots. There are those of us who are being brave enough to dig into HA Designer to be able to change it, and provide better skins. But we need more visually minded people to help dig through and understand how this aspect of the system works.

In spite of ALL I have mentioned above:

In short, there are many of us, who DO use the system daily, most of us AREN'T developers. Just people who have paid attention, done the research, and put together systems that are compatible. Some of us have large houses that are being controlled by this system, on a daily basis, and the system is behaving.

There is no false advertising here. This system is what it is, a unified smart home of the future.

In short,

If you're far too busy to put some time into setting up this very complex system, we have no time for you. Go away, and we'll better spend our time improving this system.

-Thom
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: geoffrey on February 11, 2008, 09:54:20 am
Although there is not really an excuse for not reading the directions, in all honesty, it is probably the video that contributes to peoples feeling of confusion with LinuxMCE. 

As has been mentioned before, the video is marketing and puts everything in the best possible light. (I would be curious to know if it was indeed produced by Fiire.)

I think that anyone in this forum would have to admit, that in 95% of the cases, there is no way that one could, in a few hours, have the whole house solution set up and running, with media center, security, telecom etc...

If you read through the documentation you will know this, if you get charmed by the video, you may not.

Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: Hagen on February 11, 2008, 01:27:14 pm
I think that anyone in this forum would have to admit, that in 95% of the cases, there is no way that one could, in a few hours, have the whole house solution set up and running, with media center, security, telecom etc...
If you only use proven supported equipment, then sure, no problem, if however you decide to toss in a GeForce 8400GT or use the 0710Beta3, then you should not expect to be able to do this.
The video is made by Paul using some Fiire equipment, and some other stuff. But it was also the hardware LMCE is written for, so it should of course work.
There is a few things not mentioned in the video though. for instance the need for two NICs, LMCE setting up as a DHCP server, pluss other points, but those can be easily found by looking trough this forum or the wiki.

It's not like VistaMCE works on all hardware either, not even supported hardware at times, then again, this is not a simple Media center either.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: geoffrey on February 11, 2008, 08:55:53 pm
agreed!

although one thing AdriaWave was way off on.... the "disgusting chick"  (from the) video?!?!  Personally I think she is pretty damn cute! 
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 02:30:59 am
agreed!

although one thing AdriaWave was way off on.... the "disgusting chick"  (from the) video?!?!  Personally I think she is pretty damn cute! 

Disgusting was video not chick.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: fibres on February 12, 2008, 03:47:34 am
Well I agree with geofrey I think she is damn cute too,

Does anyone have a enail for her? Would love to chat her up.
Ok maybe im being sad but who cares ;)

Regards
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 04:09:29 am
If you only use proven supported equipment, then sure, no problem,


This hardware lists in wiki are not very usable.


http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Tested_good_hardware

Most of this hardware could be found on dump, and with todays prices of hardware
I do not want my smart home to be based on old, used, almost death ... hardware
(ASUS A7V600, ASUS A7N8X Deluxe I have them but they do not work any more).

Most of my problems with lmce was with graphic card driver.
Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD is on list of tested good hardware, and it have same integrated graphic card rx1250.
I did not expected in this list to find hardware that need 12 page instruction manual to install driver.

My dvb cards (skystar 2 and HD) are not supported ????? I am sure that they work, there is no reason why
wouldn't work (compatible whit mythtv, vdr/xine, kaffeine ...)

The video is made by Paul using some Fiire equipment, and some other stuff. But it was also the hardware LMCE is written for, so it should of course work.

Fiire equipment is way overpriced, and some of the hardware used in their equipment, not now, but in 2-3 years, would be very hard to replace, for example main board and agp graphic card, and this is from their website:

Quote from: Fiire.com
CPU, memory and hard drive are never a problem to change, however, we will stick to motherboards and video/audio/network chipsets that are known-compatible with LinuxMCE.


It's not like VistaMCE works on all hardware either, not even supported hardware at times, then again, this is not a simple Media center either.

Its against my religious, political and moral beliefs to see my future with microsoft.
And like you said, vista/xp mce is just simple media center, and any linux distro + mythtv is way much better solution.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 04:21:04 am
I've been reading about Pluto and now Linux MCE for the two years I've been planning my house and only today did I even get around to installing it for the first time ever.

Its very good that you are not a developer for Linux MCE.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: golgoj4 on February 12, 2008, 04:27:36 am
I've been reading about Pluto and now Linux MCE for the two years I've been planning my house and only today did I even get around to installing it for the first time ever.

Its very good that you are not a developer for Linux MCE.

So are you going to go cry elsewhere or do we have to listen to your complaining? For some reason, you and linuxMCE are incompatible. Great story, now please go harass the next board where you will complain incessantly. Also, nobody asked for your opinion on the video, your thoughts on developers and so on so please stow that crap. Its uncalled for. Please, go figure this out yourself. We don't need negative nancy's wasting space for the sake of their ego.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: sk1 on February 12, 2008, 04:31:06 am
Its very good that you are not a developer for Linux MCE.

How do you know that I am not a developer and this is the reason you couldn't get the system to work for you??

skip
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: teedge77 on February 12, 2008, 04:58:41 am
Well I agree with geofrey I think she is damn cute too,

Does anyone have a enail for her? Would love to chat her up.
Ok maybe im being sad but who cares ;)

Regards

enail??? is that a freudian slip??  ;)
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 05:02:02 am
Yes. the UI is a bit warty in spots. There are those of us who are being brave enough to dig into HA Designer to be able to change it, and provide better skins. But we need more visually minded people to help dig through and understand how this aspect of the system works.

I think biggest problem with gui, is same layout of for every resolution, width and size of screen,
some think may be looking ok on 21", 4:3 and 380 lines tv, and on 180" 16:9 and 720p projection its look terrible.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 05:13:11 am
Its very good that you are not a developer for Linux MCE.
How do you know that I am not a developer and this is the reason you couldn't get the system to work for you??

Chill out, it was a joke for your 2 year long reading  ;D
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: geoffrey on February 12, 2008, 06:21:28 am
I will jump in here before the Gurus have a chance.  If your GUI looks the same on every resolution and screen size (I assume you are checking this using the AV wizard) then you have a problem.  I can tell you from a week of experimenting that the video outputs are very different depending on how they are set.  Are you certain you have everything connected correctly?  Double check your projectors manual.  And then search here for video/modeline.  I know there are several threads on tweaking the modeline in the xorg.conf to match your particular video output needs.

And as far as the equipment that can be found in a dump, ("almost death" I loved that description) I think you may be missing the point of Linux in general.  The computer/software industry makes gazillions by convincing folks that they constantly need the latest and greatest, when in reality they most certainly do not.  Linux distros, which for the most part are developed by people who don't want to get into your pockets, take a more sensible approach.  Linux works on equipment that is well behind the bleeding edge because that is all you need to get the job done.  Buying more than is needed to get the job done ends up only benefiting the hardware companies, not you.

A perfect example is X10.  This technology has been around since the 70's.  There are plenty of fancier (and more expensive) options out there.  But when you come right down to it, how much fancier does one need to turn on a light? 

by the way, 180" screen is impressive.  where are you setting this up?  in your barn?
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: AdriaWave on February 12, 2008, 07:43:14 am
I will jump in here before the Gurus have a chance.  If your GUI looks the same on every resolution and screen size (I assume you are checking this using the AV wizard) then you have a problem.  I can tell you from a week of experimenting that the video outputs are very different depending on how they are set.  Are you certain you have everything connected correctly?  Double check your projectors manual.  And then search here for video/modeline.  I know there are several threads on tweaking the modeline in the xorg.conf to match your particular video output needs.

I couldn't get any 16:9 resolution to work most likely because graphic card driver.


And as far as the equipment that can be found in a dump, ("almost death" I loved that description) I think you may be missing the point of Linux in general.  The computer/software industry makes gazillions by convincing folks that they constantly need the latest and greatest, when in reality they most certainly do not.  Linux distros, which for the most part are developed by people who don't want to get into your pockets, take a more sensible approach.  Linux works on equipment that is well behind the bleeding edge because that is all you need to get the job done.  Buying more than is needed to get the job done ends up only benefiting the hardware companies, not you.

I know, I have done ten's of linux projects with used computes (my first computer, 10 years old, now its used like home
router with IPCop, then juke-box, wireless router, media player with knoppmyth, car pc with imediamythtv/viaepia board...),
but for some thing like this I do not want to use old computer.

by the way, 180" screen is impressive.  where are you setting this up?  in your barn?

Its in my bedroom, and yes its impressive ;D, i was thinking to put another one in garage to have my own drive in. 8)
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: hari on February 12, 2008, 09:43:05 am
but for some thing like this I do not want to use old computer.
whats the problem with e.g. the MSI MS-7329 for the MD and the ABIT AM2 for the core? You can even use the AMD BE2400 in both of them. Thats a pretty new computer in my eyes.

both are listed in the wiki.

regards,
Hari
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: lightsoul on February 12, 2008, 03:40:07 pm
my problem is 150$ that i payed for FIRI remote control and until now i can't use it even i have Vista but the remote is limited to Linuxmce, i wish i didn't gone so quick with the Linuxmce since its still messy and land of bugs.
 
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: tschak909 on February 12, 2008, 03:48:39 pm
lightsoul: would you like to help us fix it and make it better?

I'm sick of all these users complaining, without offering any semblence of help.

-Thom
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: boyofford on February 12, 2008, 11:06:58 pm
If you only use proven supported equipment, then sure, no problem, if however you decide to toss in a GeForce 8400GT or use the 0710Beta3, then you should not expect to be able to do this.
The video is made by Paul using some Fiire equipment, and some other stuff. But it was also the hardware LMCE is written for, so it should of course work.
Hi, just wondering exactly what hardware linuxMCE was designed for? (before people throw things at me, LOL, I have seen Wiki, though seems bit limited and un-confidence inspiring)

Reason I ask is think of building a linuxMCE system, but as fairly novice, want to limit potential problems.

Rich
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: ddamron on February 13, 2008, 02:39:19 am
Rich,

That seems to be the million dollar question in this thread.  All I can say is try to follow the wiki..

Thw wiki is created by users like me and you, and it is up to us as a community to update it.  As time goes on... things start looking a bit cludged.
I'd like to invite you to help 'un cludge' the wiki hardware page!

Kindest regards,

Dan
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: golgoj4 on February 13, 2008, 03:17:41 am
I hear a lot about how 'confusing' and 'disorganized' it is. Can anyone provide specific examples of this? How should it be organized? I personally find it to be fine. Yes there are some missing articles, but I don't see anyone trying to get that info from other users so they themselves can add what they think is missing.

Im not a c++ programmer by any means, which limits me to a lot of the lower level stuff which I would love to help with. But specifics go a long way towards solving a problem. And 'confusing' is far from specific.

feel free to pm me even, leave a message about whats wrong and i'll will make my best attempt to add it.

seriously, lets get it figured out if there is truly something there to figure out.
Title: Re: Disappointment
Post by: jondecker76 on February 13, 2008, 05:02:00 am
I'm on both sides of the fence on this one...

I was also impressed with the video - but having watched Pluto for a while, and  understanding that everything is a work-in-progress getting everything to run on top of Kubuntu I knew not to set my expectations too high (yet)
I can understand a new user's frustration (I've had plenty myself, and many things that should have worked easily turned into 8-hour marathons of trial and error), I've really enjoyed that fact that I had to learn and figure things out to get them to work (it gives a much better perspective to just how complex and customizable the system is) but at the same time, I am doing my part by filing bug reports in Mantis - so I know issues will be fixed and I know that the whole "plug-and-play" architecture will eventually work with a great number of devices. I really hope to help this project get there in one way or another (once I get time, I do want to start learning and understanding the source  code - I used to develop video games but I'm a little rusty ATM).

I think it would be good to make sure users know the status of this software a little more up-front (a lot of what LMCE really is, needs thorough testing and is beta at this stage). After all, the only displeased users I've seen have been those that didn't either A)Read up a little more, or B)just aren't beta-testers by nature