LinuxMCE Forums

General => Developers => Topic started by: hari on December 30, 2007, 01:49:09 am

Title: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 30, 2007, 01:49:09 am
is somebody working on PLCBUS support?

More information:
http://www.plcbus.com.cn/
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSinfo.htm

EDIT: protocol seems to be open:
http://x10-hk.com/store/manual/plcbus/plcbus-1141.pdf

supports feedback and 200bit/s. Maybe the "insteon" for europe?

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 02:03:05 am
hmm...

Is there a SDK for this protocol?

Doesn't look much more complicated than X10..

Definately not as complex as Zwave or Insteon..

If there's interest, maybe I'll take a stab at it..
I'm in Canada, so it's kinda hard to test it.. I don't have a Isolation transformer...

Thoughts?

I'd kind of like to attempt a higher end protocol next.. KNX maybe...

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 30, 2007, 02:17:57 am
hmm...

Is there a SDK for this protocol?
Doesn't look much more complicated than X10..
the protocol is very simple. It supports nice features like report all devices, report all on and such:
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/PLCBUS#Command_specification
I think i will order the interface and some plugs.

Quote
I'd kind of like to attempt a higher end protocol next.. KNX maybe...
so expensive..
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 02:22:16 am
1audio pointed me towards echelon... That looks COOL...

How expensive is the PCLBUS stuff??
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 30, 2007, 02:41:38 am
1audio pointed me towards echelon... That looks COOL...

How expensive is the PCLBUS stuff??

just bought at elektrohomika:
71€ for the usb interface
29€ for lamp/appliance plugs

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: 1audio on December 30, 2007, 04:46:02 am
The best way to make LMCE indespensible is to support more stuff than anyone else. PLCBUS to Lonworks to Clipsal to Lutron to ??? the more and better the integration the more useful LMCE becomes. As you guys figure it out and document it better we may be able to convince hardware guys to supply the interface software to help sell hardware.

Unfortunately power standards vary a lot around the world. US, Canada and Taiwan share a standard mostly. The rest of the Americas are similar but not quite the same. In the EU, despite "harmonization" it is very country specific. So making stuff for Europe means many different versions of the same thing. And British commonwealth stuff isn't interchangeable beyond 240V 50Hz. The connectors and boxes are different in the different markets. In Japan one side of the country runs on 60 Hz and the other on 50 Hz. Making control products for a niche market for all of these markets is tough.
At the Lonworks site http://www.echelon.com/productdb/default.asp (http://www.echelon.com/productdb/default.asp) you will see 100's of lighting products for different markets and standards. Each for a specific market niche but most are pretty expensive because of the limited size and volume of the market. (And because of the commercial orientation of the companies.) But an Intermatic ZWave switch is less than $40 because of its large volume and market.
I think LMCE can help drive the utility of these products and get volume up and prices down (and possibly reduce energy use etc. . .). A number of big players also believe domestic automation is a large potential market, and have lost a lot of money testing it. I heard IBM made a push for this 10 Years ago and blew something like $50 million away in two years discovering that its not an easy class of products to sell. Maybe this time it will stick.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 05:16:20 am
1audio,

Well Put!

In my books, we have 2 things above IBM's attempt..

1.  OPEN SOURCE

2.  10 Years more of technology..  Back then, there weren't a lot of players.. now, everybody's competing against each other..

for 30 years, X10 had a HUGE following, (me included) IMHO, this following was ONLY because NOTHING else existed!

X10 is still kicking, I wouldn't discount them yet.. but now that the other standards (zwave, insteon, etc) have actual products, they're going to have to catch up...
and it's gonna be HARD with zwave (eliminating the PLC problems) and Insteon(full X10 compatibility)

As a local radio jockey used to say...
My thoughts, not yours..
(the late Joe Sports)

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 08:58:32 am
I just took a closer look at the spec..
First, I think we'll need more specs.. the technical data doesn't quite cut it..

it states 9600 baud, 1 start bit, 1 length bit, 5 or 6 data bits, 1 stop bit..

I'm assuming the 1 length bit can be combined into the data bits... giving us 1 start, 7 wordbits, 1 stop...

..no mention of parity..

it also states TIMING is critical.. TWO commands must be send WITHIN 12.5ms.. then, NOTHING is transmitted for another 400ms..

this COULD be a problem..
We don't actually 'control' the transmission.. GSD does that...  and I doubt GSD has that level of timing built in..

Not to say it CAN'T be done, it probably can, but it'll take some experimenting..

The rest of the code is SURPRISINGLY CLOSE to X10 go figure, they call it S10... lol

HTH,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 30, 2007, 03:28:52 pm
I just took a closer look at the spec..
First, I think we'll need more specs.. the technical data doesn't quite cut it..
i think it should be enough. The homeseer plugin was developed with that information.
Quote
it states 9600 baud, 1 start bit, 1 length bit, 5 or 6 data bits, 1 stop bit..

I'm assuming the 1 length bit can be combined into the data bits... giving us 1 start, 7 wordbits, 1 stop...

..no mention of parity..
i assume it uses 8n1.
The document mixes bits with bytes. The start, length, data and stop "bits" are bytes. This is the frame description and not the serial port configuration.
Quote
it also states TIMING is critical.. TWO commands must be send WITHIN 12.5ms.. then, NOTHING is transmitted for another 400ms..

this COULD be a problem..
We don't actually 'control' the transmission.. GSD does that...  and I doubt GSD has that level of timing built in..
this will only be a problem when we break the command/ack sequence. The 400ms must be a typo, too. The system can handle 10 commands per second (feedback is given after 0.1s). So i assume it should read 40ms.
Quote
The rest of the code is SURPRISINGLY CLOSE to X10 go figure, they call it S10... lol
so you think PLCBUS is S10 compatible?

EDIT: it is 9600,8N1. Look at this: http://board.homeseer.com/showpost.php?p=784294&postcount=74

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 11:01:48 pm
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...

I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..

Let me finish the Insteon..  Ask me again once I release the code.

:)

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 30, 2007, 11:16:44 pm
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...
i'm searching for years to find a reliable cheap two way european (230V/50Hz) solution.
No products for ZigBee
No supported (buyable) 868mhz Z-Wave interfaces for linux
No interfaces for other cheap RF solutions
No reliability or feedback with X10 and other "german" RF solutions from Conrad..
No way to retrofit EIB without insane expenses

Maybe that is the holy grail for HA in europe.. tried to find as much as i can about PLCBUS last night *grin*
Quote
I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..
i hope to get the stuff delivered next week. I will shamelessly rip your findings out of your GSD template *bad grin*   ;D
It should only take some hours to implement simple commands. I'm just digging through the lightning plugin to get more familiar with the topic..

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 30, 2007, 11:23:18 pm
Heh, Not a problem..
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on December 31, 2007, 11:54:40 am
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...
i'm searching for years to find a reliable cheap two way european (230V/50Hz) solution.
No products for ZigBee
No supported (buyable) 868mhz Z-Wave interfaces for linux
No interfaces for other cheap RF solutions
No reliability or feedback with X10 and other "german" RF solutions from Conrad..
No way to retrofit EIB without insane expenses

Maybe that is the holy grail for HA in europe.. tried to find as much as i can about PLCBUS last night *grin*
Quote
I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..
i hope to get the stuff delivered next week. I will shamelessly rip your findings out of your GSD template *bad grin*   ;D
It should only take some hours to implement simple commands. I'm just digging through the lightning plugin to get more familiar with the topic..

best regards,
Hari

I totally agree Hari... PLCBUS looks like a great solution and one that would be great to have working in LinuxMCE.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on December 31, 2007, 12:00:34 pm
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...

I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..

Let me finish the Insteon..  Ask me again once I release the code.

:)

Regards,

Dan


Hey Dan if you can re-use your Insteon code as a template that wold be great. PLCBUS would pull in a lot of interest outside N. America. Maybe you can code it such that the Insteon & PLCBUS drivers share some common code libaries with all the protocol dependent stuff (ie Insteon & PLCBUS) pulled out into two separate libraries. That way maintaining/supporting/updating the code for both would be easier... just an idea of course! ;-)
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on December 31, 2007, 12:26:07 pm
I totally agree Hari... PLCBUS looks like a great solution and one that would be great to have working in LinuxMCE.
you can count on me! The hardest part was to find the hardware ;) Should be great for your UK customers, too..

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 31, 2007, 12:52:10 pm
Heh, Anyone want to send me a ticket, I'll bring my laptop, and code away!
I've never been outside NA... <hint hint> lol

Actually, my Insteon code has kinda warped (due to the spidering technique) but the main logic is there..

I really need to learn C++.  I think that would really help with the multithreaded issue.. (which is STILL rearing it's ugly head)

What's making my code so complex is that I have to CONFIRM each message I receive, and determine IF it's a response from a message I sent,  or an incoming message from another controller, or whatever... It complicates the issue when I have to wait for a broadcast message..
I have to verify WHO it's coming from, if it's a Broadcast message, If it's a response I'm waiting for, etc etc...

It really requires a good handle on the Insteon messaging protocol.. (which is about 100 times more complex than X10 or even S10)

Ahh, the joys of debugging..

Implementing PLCBUS should be quite a bite more straight forward..  I can't 'ping' device types or anything like that, so why bother..

That's also one of the main reasons I decided to attack Insteon, the protocol allows for so much.. and it's just going to get better once they start releaseing i2 devices.. with threaded Databases, advanced Extended Data capabilities, etc..

I'm starting to fade here, I'm going to bed...

G'night all

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: niz23 on December 31, 2007, 01:45:27 pm
Hi all.

From the beginning I was sceptic about plcbus. Seem to have to low transfer rate be useful for anything more than light, relay controls.
I want to be able to interface keypad, lcds etc for control purposes.

The more I think about it, plcbus seem to be the only affordable, yet reliable solution available in europe so far.

I found some information that may be of use for anyone that are willing to write a driver for plcbus.
I can help as much as I can, but I do not now how to program in ruby and it was about 1 years since I programmed in c++.

The following I found on homeseer forum:
The USB - RS232 chipset is Prolific PL2303( same as X10 CM12U usb cable ).

Link to post,
http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?s=126c471d1c62900350b47ae38eeff355&t=119141&page=2


I also found some more dissapointing news.
It seem that when a user push a light-switch, no status is sent back along the plcbus to a control device. (computer)
See this forum in swedish (unfortunately), http://forum.byggahus.se/teknik/64615-z-wave-plcbus-alternativ-till-eib-ihc.html
In the thread there was also a discussion about a automation@home that are trying to convince the chinese manufacturer to implement feedback functionality in the light switches. I don´t know if it have been implemented yet.

Another way to implement a computer<->plcbus interface may be to use the following module,
http://www.plcbus.com/PLCBUS-985468.html
I have not found a datasheet for this one yet but looking at the specs it seem the have 220V powerline interface together with rs-232 and some more interfaces. I believe that this module do not need all the timing that commands sent directly on the plcbus need. Hopefully. I will check with plcbus.com to see if there is any datasheets available.

Will dig a bit more since this technology seem promising and Inteon have not yet developed any products for 220V/50hz even though they have promised me that it would be available during mid 2007.


/niz23
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on December 31, 2007, 03:19:00 pm
Heh, Anyone want to send me a ticket, I'll bring my laptop, and code away!
I've never been outside NA... <hint hint> lol

Actually, my Insteon code has kinda warped (due to the spidering technique) but the main logic is there..

I really need to learn C++.  I think that would really help with the multithreaded issue.. (which is STILL rearing it's ugly head)

What's making my code so complex is that I have to CONFIRM each message I receive, and determine IF it's a response from a message I sent,  or an incoming message from another controller, or whatever... It complicates the issue when I have to wait for a broadcast message..
I have to verify WHO it's coming from, if it's a Broadcast message, If it's a response I'm waiting for, etc etc...

It really requires a good handle on the Insteon messaging protocol.. (which is about 100 times more complex than X10 or even S10)

Ahh, the joys of debugging..

Implementing PLCBUS should be quite a bite more straight forward..  I can't 'ping' device types or anything like that, so why bother..

That's also one of the main reasons I decided to attack Insteon, the protocol allows for so much.. and it's just going to get better once they start releaseing i2 devices.. with threaded Databases, advanced Extended Data capabilities, etc..

I'm starting to fade here, I'm going to bed...

G'night all

Dan


Hmmm... maybe you could use callbacks to so that each message or class od message has a callback associated with it. Thats a simple way to handle responses that might happen at anytime or could take an indeterminate amount of time. in the past I've used callback to this kind of thing. Just a thought...
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on December 31, 2007, 09:12:27 pm
Heh, Yeah, Next time, I'll do that...

What I'd REALLY like to do is implement a COMMAND object
which has properties and methods.. and handles all communication for itself..
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on December 31, 2007, 09:17:31 pm
Heh, Yeah, Next time, I'll do that...

What I'd REALLY like to do is implement a COMMAND object
which has properties and methods.. and handles all communication for itself..


You could build some OOP code that encapsulates a callback...
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 01, 2008, 12:51:03 am
Yep, that's what I had in mind..

I am learning Ruby as I go, and to make matters worse, I started with structured coding...

When you've done structured for so long, it's hard to 'realize' OOP..

Ruby is nice in that it's OOP interpreted.. I can try something out and see if it works..

Anywho, back to the grind...

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 01, 2008, 02:19:52 pm
Hari,
I've been looking at this protocol closer...

You have a RS232 Controller coming?

This protocol looks quite easy to implement.  I can probably have a beta version in about 2-3 days.

Let me know when you get your equipment.. Maybe we can set up a ssh and I can code directly on your box.

(as I can't test this code in Canada)

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 01, 2008, 02:48:43 pm
You have a RS232 Controller coming?
yes ;) hope to get it in a few days. To be specific it's usb. But it uses some prolific usb to serial adapter.
Quote
This protocol looks quite easy to implement. 
Yes. The protocol itself is very simple. The biggest task will be the sane pluto integration (asking for the user code and 1/3 phase setup, polling the lights for changes, address setup/change of devices, using the scene controller to select scenarios)
Quote
Let me know when you get your equipment.. Maybe we can set up a ssh and I can code directly on your box.
should be no problem. I will set up some dev environement in a vm (snapshotted) with a web cam watching the lights *grin*.

best regards and keep up your great work,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 01, 2008, 03:06:51 pm
From the beginning I was sceptic about plcbus. Seem to have to low transfer rate be useful for anything more than light, relay controls.
I want to be able to interface keypad, lcds etc for control purposes.
you can achieve that with ethernet, too. PLCBUS fits the missing gap for small/cheap/slow powerline devices like lights and relays.
Quote
The more I think about it, plcbus seem to be the only affordable, yet reliable solution available in europe so far.
yes.
Quote
I found some information that may be of use for anyone that are willing to write a driver for plcbus.
I can help as much as I can, but I do not now how to program in ruby and it was about 1 years since I programmed in c++.
thank you for the links. Even if you don't program it would be great to have some testers ;)
Quote
I also found some more dissapointing news.
It seem that when a user push a light-switch, no status is sent back along the plcbus to a control device. (computer)
yes, i know. But there is a command to query the lamps (1D, GET ONLY ON ID PULSE). We could poll for "ON" devices.
Quote
Will dig a bit more since this technology seem promising and Inteon have not yet developed any products for 220V/50hz even though they have promised me that it would be available during mid 2007.
yeah, buy many devices for our tests ;)

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 01, 2008, 03:13:28 pm
Thanks Hari, I don't forsee more than about 2 or 3 hundred lines of code (that's pushing it)
As long as the USB side is a simple serial converter... and lmce recognizes it as a serial port...
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 01, 2008, 03:21:41 pm
Thanks Hari, I don't forsee more than about 2 or 3 hundred lines of code (that's pushing it)
at first i will do some simple command line utility to send codes (also needed for assigning the id's) and see what the unit reports when be thrown at with some bits and bytes ;)
Quote
As long as the USB side is a simple serial converter... and lmce recognizes it as a serial port...
pl230x support is pretty mature in the kernel. I have some usb/rs232 adapter with the same chip for my marantz av sr. It get's detected by lmce perfectly and fires the pnp routines. Don't think we will have troubles with that.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on January 01, 2008, 03:26:26 pm
Hari,
I've been looking at this protocol closer...

You have a RS232 Controller coming?

This protocol looks quite easy to implement.  I can probably have a beta version in about 2-3 days.

Let me know when you get your equipment.. Maybe we can set up a ssh and I can code directly on your box.

(as I can't test this code in Canada)

Dan


I'll see if we can get some PLCBUS hardware setup too... I'll check this out this week and let you know ;-)
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 01, 2008, 03:49:04 pm
Sounds good..
I can probably do all the coding via HTTP, I code it all via the admin...
you'd have to open it up for me, and assign me a user ID..
That's probably the easiest, that's how I code here, all via the HTTP window..

It looks like I found my next project...

Where's the plane ticket?

lol

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 01, 2008, 05:04:01 pm
Where's the plane ticket?
maybe totallymaxed will sponsor some plug fest or lmce summit in berlin ;) I will organize the ticket for Danielk..

much phun,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 01, 2008, 05:08:01 pm
I'd LOVE to go to Berlin!

I'll code for free...

wait a minute....

I am coding for free...

crap

lol

 :D

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 01, 2008, 05:16:13 pm
I'd LOVE to go to Berlin!
great town!
Quote
I'll code for free...

wait a minute....

I am coding for free...

crap

lol

 :D
1.) code for free
2.) ??
3.) profit

lol
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: colinjones on January 02, 2008, 01:40:41 am
Hari/Niz23 - just want to mention, it is more than just Europe that PLCBUS could "fill the gap". The vast majority of the world uses 220+ v and 50Hz. All of Europe, Africa & Middle east (bar one country each!), Asia (except Japan), Australia, New Zealand, Oceania and parts of South America.... esp with the massive growth in some Asia countries (obviously China and India!) this would dramatically expand the applicability of LMCE as a meaningful Home Automation system. I think we should be saying "outside N. America"! I'm in Australia, so also stuck with the same crap X10  :(

BTW, dan, thanks for all your work in this area and looking into PLCBUS when it doesn't directly benefit you :)

And a link to a great map on Wikipedia for power v/Hz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WorldMap_Voltage%26Frequency.png
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 02, 2008, 03:31:57 am
colinjones,

That's a nice read!  thanks for the link.

I have never being outside of NA, and as such, haven't experienced  any 50Hz systems..

although I did go on a cruise once, and there were both 50Hz and 60Hz plugs in the cabins...

interesting...

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: posterberg on January 02, 2008, 11:49:08 am
1) I think I should make sure to order some PLCBUS equipment as well
    Did any of you find a good webshop with ok prices? ;o) I've only found automation@home so far, it's always nice to have more than one...
2) A LMCE summit in Berlin would be totally awesome!
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: niz23 on January 02, 2008, 11:59:17 am
Posterberg,

1) I think I should make sure to order some PLCBUS equipment as well
    Did any of you find a good webshop with ok prices? ;o) I've only found automation@home so far, it's


I have found this site,
http://www.elekhomica.nl/index.php?cPath=135

I have not yet compared prices.

It would be nice to have a place to buy from in sweden, to keep freight cost down.
Strange it does not exist yet, since plcbus have been on the market for several years.

Anyone know a shop in sweden that sell plcbus equipment?


/niz23

Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 02, 2008, 12:01:31 pm
BTW, dan, thanks for all your work in this area and looking into PLCBUS when it doesn't directly benefit you :)

The way I see it, good quality HA is going to be the KEY to wide adoption.

I've always been 'tinkering' with HA.. I think my first X10 device was a Radio Shack HomePlug.. lol

I was getting very frustrated with the progress of quality HA drivers for lmce, hence, I 'bit the bullet' and learned Ruby..

Now that I know a bit more about it.. <hehe> and looking here at how many people CAN'T use Insteon..  and looking at how simple PLCBUS is, it only makes sense to integrate it..

I doubt it will have the same integration level as Insteon (the protocol doesn't allow for it), but I'll make a quality BIDIRECTIONAL driver for it.
You'll have to add each lighting device in LMCE manually.. shouldn't be a problem... it's dead simple...

The nice features of zwave and insteon are that the protocols are advanced enough to 'sniff' out all the devices, and add them to lmce accordingly.  That's what I've tried to do with the Insteon driver.. and from what I've read, thats also what the ZWave driver did.

Regards,

Dan

Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 02, 2008, 12:03:13 pm
I'm going to start a poll to see how many people will use PLCBUS.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: totallymaxed on January 02, 2008, 12:07:58 pm
The nice features of zwave and insteon are that the protocols are advanced enough to 'sniff' out all the devices, and add them to lmce accordingly.  That's what I've tried to do with the Insteon driver.. and from what I've read, thats also what the ZWave driver did.

Regards,

Dan

Yep... thats exactly what the current  z-wave driver does
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 02, 2008, 01:46:19 pm
I have found this site,
http://www.elekhomica.nl/index.php?cPath=135
i have ordered from them, too. As i have the price lists from the manufacturer i can say they make good deals.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: niz23 on January 02, 2008, 02:11:50 pm
Hari.

I have found this site,
http://www.elekhomica.nl/index.php?cPath=135
i have ordered from them, too. As i have the price lists from the manufacturer i can say they make good deals.

[/quote]

Do you want to share that price list?

Anyone know what´s the smallest quantity the chinese manufacturer accept?
I believe as almost all manufacturer there should be possible to do a sample order for evaluation.

/niz23
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 02, 2008, 02:39:57 pm
Do you want to share that price list?
you can request it from Shanghai Super Smart.
Quote
Anyone know what´s the smallest quantity the chinese manufacturer accept?
they also sell quantities =< 10pcs. They have big discounts for larger quantities.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 09, 2008, 03:03:45 am
did a small config utility:
http://svn.charonmedia.org/trac.cgi/browser/home/hari/plcbus-tool/plcbus.c

user code is hard coded atm.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: RichardP on January 09, 2008, 07:26:44 am
The nice features of zwave and insteon are that the protocols are advanced enough to 'sniff' out all the devices, and add them to lmce accordingly.  That's what I've tried to do with the Insteon driver.. and from what I've read, thats also what the ZWave driver did.

Regards,

Dan

Yep... thats exactly what the current  z-wave driver does

Are you using Z-Wave? I thought it was 110volt only! I'd love something like Z-Wave for 220v/50Hz. Any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Richard.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hkmod25 on January 09, 2008, 10:51:53 am

Quote
Are you using Z-Wave? I thought it was 110volt only! I'd love something like Z-Wave for 220v/50Hz. Any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Richard.
Look here: http://www.smarthus.info/index.php?cPath=1_46
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 09, 2008, 01:53:50 pm
Ok, just spent 3 hours on hari's box...
got some promising results from his PLCBUS stuff..
Implemented ON/OFF/DIM/BRIGHT..

code is below:
http://rafb.net/p/7XnPwT61.html

Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: posterberg on January 09, 2008, 02:07:36 pm
Ok, just spent 3 hours on hari's box...
got some promising results from his PLCBUS stuff..
Implemented ON/OFF/DIM/BRIGHT..

code is below:
http://rafb.net/p/7XnPwT61.html



Awesome!
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: posterberg on January 09, 2008, 02:22:03 pm

Quote
Are you using Z-Wave? I thought it was 110volt only! I'd love something like Z-Wave for 220v/50Hz. Any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Richard.
Look here: http://www.smarthus.info/index.php?cPath=1_46

States "European version", http://stores.ebay.com/youautomateit_Z-wave-Products_ACT-European_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ116891019QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Also a "bit" better prices... ;o)
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 10, 2008, 05:39:02 pm
Ok, just spent 3 hours on hari's box...
got some promising results from his PLCBUS stuff..
Implemented ON/OFF/DIM/BRIGHT..

code is below:
http://rafb.net/p/7XnPwT61.html


and here is a picture from the test setup:
Title: Z-Wave
Post by: Heiermann on January 12, 2008, 11:17:37 pm
Hello,

while looking for a Z-Wave - solution I found out, that Merten offers a product-line called "Connect" for 220V/50Hz
(http://www.voltus.de/schalterprogramme/merten/funksystem-connect/)
Since this is quite expensive, I started looking for a cheaper system. I found the FS20 - Protokoll, that is allready supported by linux (http://fhz4linux.info/tiki-index.php)
There is tons of Hardware available for the FS20 - Protokoll (way more than for the PLCBUS). I would like to have a device-template for FS20 in the next linuxmce-release.

regards
 Heiermann
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 12, 2008, 11:25:48 pm
Heiermann,

You're not asking for much, are you... :O

I only read English.. so your links don't help me...

Why don't you take a look at some of the code I've posted.. and attempt it yourself.

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 12, 2008, 11:37:22 pm
Heiermann,

I think it should be pointed out, that I, along with everyone else here, are VOLUNTEERS.
we do NOT get paid for what we do here.
Quote
I would like to have a device-template for FS20 in the next linuxmce-release.
If you want this, how about offering up some cash to get it done.
Check out the Marketplace threads..

Honestly, I'm a bit miffed.

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: Heiermann on January 12, 2008, 11:55:30 pm
Hello Dan,

you are totally right! I honestly believe that you are doing a great job, and I thank you for that.
But I think that you are not the only one with interest in developing better solutions for lmce.
When I look at the "local dealers and custom installers" - list for LinuxMCE on the FIIRE-Website (for example), I allready see companies in many european countries. The solution I suggested (FS20) is allready available in many european countries.
Now I am looking for a sponsor to get some cash for that work.

best regards
 Heiermann
Title: Re: Z-Wave
Post by: hari on January 13, 2008, 12:29:44 am
There is tons of Hardware available for the FS20 - Protokoll (way more than for the PLCBUS). I would like to have a device-template for FS20 in the next linuxmce-release.
FS20 is not very reliable and has no status feedback. Friend of mine has a big installation and really does not like it.
What does hold you back from adding a device-template? There is even a daemon available that takes telnet commands.

best regards,
Hari
Title: PLCBUS
Post by: cyf4746 on January 14, 2008, 04:18:55 am
I have contact with a home automation manufacturer in China. Their product is using PLC Technology. What information needed in order to develop an interface compatible with LMCE? Perhaps the Source code for their IR remote controller will help?
Please reply, and I will get as much information from this manufacturer.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: 1audio on January 14, 2008, 05:35:20 am
Which PLC technology? There are lots. Many that aren't very good. The IR remote isn't useful, we need info for a PC interface, either serial or RS232.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 14, 2008, 07:02:58 am
I have contact with a home automation manufacturer in China. Their product is using PLC Technology. What information needed in order to develop an interface compatible with LMCE? Perhaps the Source code for their IR remote controller will help?
Please reply, and I will get as much information from this manufacturer.

If you're referring to PLCBUS, an interface is already in the works.
Title: Re: Z-Wave
Post by: totallymaxed on January 14, 2008, 11:50:06 am
Hello,

while looking for a Z-Wave - solution I found out, that Merten offers a product-line called "Connect" for 220V/50Hz
(http://www.voltus.de/schalterprogramme/merten/funksystem-connect/)
Since this is quite expensive, I started looking for a cheaper system. I found the FS20 - Protokoll, that is allready supported by linux (http://fhz4linux.info/tiki-index.php)
There is tons of Hardware available for the FS20 - Protokoll (way more than for the PLCBUS). I would like to have a device-template for FS20 in the next linuxmce-release.

regards
 Heiermann

Well FS20 is not that well thought of in my experience. But you could give it a try I guess ;-)

However Dan and Hari and others here are working very hard on Insteon (which appears to at last coming to Europe) and on PLCbus. Then of course there is z-wave... that works now with some limitations. Your right about Merten's Connect product line it is z-wave based.

If you look at the activity here on this topic then you will see that Insteon/PLCbus/X10 & Z-wave are peoples focus at the moment... I would start with one of those unless you want to develop the code yourself in which case great!
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 14, 2008, 11:41:08 pm
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...

I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..

Let me finish the Insteon..  Ask me again once I release the code.

:)

Regards,

Dan


Hey Dan if you can re-use your Insteon code as a template that wold be great. PLCBUS would pull in a lot of interest outside N. America. Maybe you can code it such that the Insteon & PLCBUS drivers share some common code libaries with all the protocol dependent stuff (ie Insteon & PLCBUS) pulled out into two separate libraries. That way maintaining/supporting/updating the code for both would be easier... just an idea of course! ;-)

Totallymaxed,

I'm in the final stages of a new and improved Obect Oriented design.
This new code should give these advantages:

1.  Takes care of the threading issue.  Handles queuing of all commands and responses.
2.  Allows a simple 'cut&paste' method for most home automation protocols.
3.  Each protocol will be implemented as a class.  This makes maintaining code MUCH easier.

I'm debugging as I'm writing this..

Of course, I will wiki my results, and instructions on how to create the protocolObnject class.

Regards,

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: RichardP on January 15, 2008, 05:53:53 am

Totallymaxed,

I'm in the final stages of a new and improved Obect Oriented design.
This new code should give these advantages:

1.  Takes care of the threading issue.  Handles queuing of all commands and responses.
2.  Allows a simple 'cut&paste' method for most home automation protocols.
3.  Each protocol will be implemented as a class.  This makes maintaining code MUCH easier.

I'm debugging as I'm writing this..

Of course, I will wiki my results, and instructions on how to create the protocolObnject class.

Regards,

Dan


Hi Dan,

I might go the PLCBus route, and if so, I'll make a decision within the next few days. If there's anthing I can do to help, let me know.

Best Regards,
Richard.
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: chrisbirkinshaw on January 18, 2008, 12:53:00 am
It looks like this device converts X10 and PLCBUS Rf to PLCBUS powerline signals:

PLCBUS-T4023UK PLCBUS Encrypted RF Transceiver
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSPage.htm

...but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone know for sure?

I have a load of X10 rf switches and sensors (EU and US frequencies) which I would need to interface into LMCE with low latency to then control PLCBUS kit.

Chris
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 18, 2008, 01:04:19 am
It looks like this device converts X10 and PLCBUS Rf to PLCBUS powerline signals:

PLCBUS-T4023UK PLCBUS Encrypted RF Transceiver
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSPage.htm

...but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone know for sure?

I have a load of X10 rf switches and sensors (EU and US frequencies) which I would need to interface into LMCE with low latency to then control PLCBUS kit.

Chris
it converts PLCBUS RF and X10 encrypted RF

there is also a PLCBUS-4808 X10/PLCBUS Transfer Interface

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 18, 2008, 01:08:15 am
It looks like this device converts X10 and PLCBUS Rf to PLCBUS powerline signals:

PLCBUS-T4023UK PLCBUS Encrypted RF Transceiver
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSPage.htm

...but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone know for sure?

I have a load of X10 rf switches and sensors (EU and US frequencies) which I would need to interface into LMCE with low latency to then control PLCBUS kit.

Chris

Chris,

That transceiver looks like it receives the ENCRYPTED X10 messages.. like the ones from alarm sensors..

I think you'll probably have more luck with the PLCBUS-4808 X10/PLCBUS Transfer Interface on the same page.
That will act as a 'bridge' between X10 and PLCBUS.  If you need to receive RF X10, then simply plug in a X10 RF receiver. (I'm sure you have one of those around).  That will take the RF X10 and put it on the powerline, which will then be converted by the PLCBUS-4808 X10/PLCBUS Transfer Interface.

HTH

Dan
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 18, 2008, 01:12:01 am
It looks like this device converts X10 and PLCBUS Rf to PLCBUS powerline signals:

PLCBUS-T4023UK PLCBUS Encrypted RF Transceiver
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSPage.htm

...but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone know for sure?

I have a load of X10 rf switches and sensors (EU and US frequencies) which I would need to interface into LMCE with low latency to then control PLCBUS kit.

Chris

Chris,

That transceiver looks like it receives the ENCRYPTED X10 messages.. like the ones from alarm sensors..

I think you'll probably have more luck with the PLCBUS-4808 X10/PLCBUS Transfer Interface on the same page.
That will act as a 'bridge' between X10 and PLCBUS.  If you need to receive RF X10, then simply plug in a X10 RF receiver. (I'm sure you have one of those around).  That will take the RF X10 and put it on the powerline, which will then be converted by the PLCBUS-4808 X10/PLCBUS Transfer Interface.

HTH

Dan


first post ;=)
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 18, 2008, 04:35:27 am
Heh, yeah, but mine was longer ;=)
lol
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 18, 2008, 08:02:02 am
Anyone looking for Status Update on PLCBUS, please see: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=3863.0

Almost done!
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: hari on January 18, 2008, 03:03:32 pm
got the PLCBUS Crystal Scene Controller ;)

will mount it now ;)

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 18, 2008, 06:13:59 pm
That's great to hear!  Perfect Timing...
Title: Re: PLCBUS Status Update
Post by: hari on January 25, 2008, 09:16:45 pm
Hi Devs,

update from the PLCBUS front:

Mr Lightz (aka ddamron) implemented bidirectional communications today. Manual control from a "crystal scene controller" now updates the device state and that gets reflected on the floorplan.

KUDOS Mr. Lightz!!!

the code is in the testing sqlCVS repository.

best regards,
Hari
Title: Re: PLCBUS
Post by: ddamron on January 26, 2008, 12:44:57 am
awww Thanks Hari!

Yes, it is coming along nicely.