LinuxMCE Forums

General => Installation issues => Topic started by: Armor Gnome on February 04, 2013, 09:20:58 am

Title: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 04, 2013, 09:20:58 am
Hello again everyone!

I am still as I posted in my last visits as busy as ever.  I actually decided for 2013 to make my little tinkering projects my business and got serious about advertising myself as an IT Tech and custom builder.  Old timers to the forums who have been done wrong when someone gets $ for eyeballs should know I don't sell or even mention LMCE to my customers.  I didn't build it, I understand it enough to keep my own equipment running and it's bad business all around.

I haven't been around much so tossing this problem out and hoping someone had a few spare minutes to look it over.  I am troubleshooting it slowly but my only fix currently impacts other parts of my installation.

Hybrid/Core - ancient 2 Xeon server. Works great
MD1 - dell Desktop, (Inspiron?) it's the small white PCIe/SATA model and runs great and quiet
Squeezebox - installing this kills audio on my hybrid.  So I assume it must grab an available sound card anywhere on eth1 network and use that?

Reinstall
Hybrid up
MD1 added
MD2 brought up with 4 sound cards (intel onboard + 3 pci soundblasters)
Squeezebox up and works.

MD2 however randomly changes its audio output from the onboard intel analog to the 3rd SB digital.  This happens quite often and I have not found a way to lock its output down.
Further and this occurs regardless of the squeezebox being added, mythTV is choosing an output seperate from the rest of the system.  I can watch a movie or play audio/get security alerts but to hear anything from the tv I have to go to the MD and plug/unplug until I hear something.

- pull extra sound cards out means no squeezebox
- I can not add these SB to my hybrid and make it a silent headless as its pci ports are not notched the same (3.5V vs 5V or something)
- I could run a 3.5mm cable from a SB output to the squeezebox line-in but as far as I can tell that disables all control and makes it a amplified speaker only.

I am beyond my annoying insistence on hacking together old hardware to make it work.  In this case if a better method than multiple sound cards keeps the squeezebox playing in the kitchen I will do it!
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 05, 2013, 04:19:54 am
I managed to break it further.

Deleted and removed slim-server, slimstreamer and the device slimserver-player.
MD2 still uses random sound outputs and now my hybrid lost audio.


Any clue what might be going on?
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 06, 2013, 01:52:50 am
Update and upgrade.

I have been working on audio.

Also tell me the output of grep AlternateSC /etc/pluto.conf
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 06, 2013, 06:53:17 am
Will do. 

After post #2 I did a clone restore to Feb 2nd which was before I removed devices and broke it worse.  From reading your other posts I need to do update/upgrade on each machine and then av wizard on them all. I should have your requested pastebin up by tomorrow.  If its not resolved I will get you my equipment and instal details also.

Thought:  does the squeeze server addition modify the alternativeSC file?  It may be an important note for the order in which I add that device to my network.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 07, 2013, 04:47:27 am
Since applying the stored image I haven't this issue.  Perhaps my most recent update/upgrade pulled down a bad audio setting?  I will continue to use it as is, and have the roommates play media around the house and see if it stays.

If working log files benefit you though I can still post it.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 07, 2013, 04:30:17 pm
There is a new audio setup. Please update to latest, and rerun AVWizard.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 07, 2013, 11:53:29 pm
ran update/upgrade on hybrid
ran update/upgrade on MD via ssh

Hybrid refused to rerun avwizard
MD ran avwizard but I did not encounter any new screens
- Selecteded onboard soundcard for audio (heard music, skipped digital test screens)
- From orbiter selected audio for that MD and pressed play, no sound
- Pulled and moved 3.5 jack until sound came out of speakers, found it on PCI SB#3 black plug

output of hybrid /etc/pluto.conf
Quote
# Pluto config file
MySqlHost = localhost
MySqlUser = root
MySqlPassword =
MySqlDBName = pluto_main
DCERouter = localhost
MySqlPort = 3306
DCERouterPort = 3450
PK_Device = 1
Activation_Code = 1111
PK_Installation = 1033786
PK_Users = 1
PK_Distro = 18
Display = 0
SharedDesktop = 1
OfflineMode = false
#<-mkr_b_videowizard_b->
UseVideoWizard = 1
#<-mkr_b_videowizard_e->
LogLevels = 1,5,7,8
#ImmediatelyFlushLog = 1
AutostartCore=1
AutostartMedia=1
FirstBoot = false
AVWizardOverride = 0
TimeZoneSet = 1
DesktopActivated = 1
LastSearchTokenUpdate=1360198406
PlutoVersion = 2.0.0.45.13020527164
Bookmark_Media = 4,5
DisableFirewall=1
DisableIPv6Firewall=1

output of /usr/pluto/diskless/moon43/etc/pluto.conf
Quote
OfflineMode = false
PlutoVersion = 2.0.0.45.13020527164
Vendor =
Display = 0
DCERouter = dcerouter
DCERouterPort = 3450
MySqlHost = dcerouter
MySqlUser = root
MySqlPassword =
MySqlDBName = pluto_main
PK_Device = 43
PK_Distro = 18
LogLevels = 1,5,7,8
AutostartCore = 0
AutostartMedia = 1
AVWizardOverride = 0
AVWizardDone = 1

FirstBoot = false
DesktopActivated = 1

No AlternateSC found in either file.

Here is a highlighted version of lspci (on MD) so you can see what cards are involved:
Quote
root@moon43:~# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset DRAM Controller (rev 02)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 4 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port (rev 02)
00:1a.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #4
00:1a.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #5
00:1a.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #6
00:1a.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #2
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) HD Audio Controller
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Root Port 1
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 2
00:1c.5 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Root Port 6
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1
00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #2
00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #3
00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #1
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 90)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801JIR (ICH10R) LPC Interface Controller
00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) 4 port SATA IDE Controller #1
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) SMBus Controller
00:1f.5 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) 2 port SATA IDE Controller #2
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G73 [GeForce 7600 GT] (rev a1)
02:00.0 SATA controller: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB363 SATA/IDE Controller (rev 03)
02:00.1 IDE interface: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB363 SATA/IDE Controller (rev 03)
04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02)
05:00.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 0a)
05:00.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 0a)
05:01.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 07)
05:01.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 07)
05:02.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 06)
05:02.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 06)
05:03.0 Communication controller: Conexant Systems, Inc. HCF 56k Data/Fax/Voice/Spkp Modem (rev 08)


I highlighted the video card in green as I know you have been working on GT cards support for audio with HDMI.  I don't know if that card is capable of it or not as its an older model but its worth noting I felt.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 08, 2013, 01:31:19 am
I think, firstly, your HDMI audio might work ootb now.

Also, it would be helpful if you could pastebin /usr/pluto/diskless/XX/var/log/pluto/AVWizard_Run_*.log  where XX is the md number which refused to hit avwiz, I would like to know what's what with that. rm or mv /etc/asound.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf and reboot it and see if it gets to avwiz.

Do the same for the other MD and reboot.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 08, 2013, 05:27:13 am
I think I have found the problem.

I have submitted a patch, and when freenode gets fixed it will hopefully be applied and dumped into repo. Will keep you apprised.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 08, 2013, 08:06:33 am
As always, you are amazing.  Thank you.

The hybrid that doesn't want to go to AV Wizard is the onboard 8mb ATI rage xl.  Again, if it would benefit you I will post my pastebins but I am (like anyone should be with that chipset) happy to have it past failed-to-setup-X screen.  After some web admin adjustments and using the ?fglxr? driver it can play most non-hd movies. 

The XFX Nvidia 7600 GT that you think may handle audio out of the DVI port is one of my favorite budget cards.  I have several laying about I put into mid-range media PCs.  Any help you need testing them I will be happy to assist with.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 08, 2013, 02:22:30 pm
Go ahead and update... and see if the problem persists. An ati rage eh... are you installing this fglrx manually? Because if the scheme sees fglrx and does not not recommend fglrx, it will purge it and reinstall all the base xorg stuff.

It would be helpful probably to go over  all this in irc. I am off working today, but should be around tonight and tomorrow.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 10, 2013, 07:51:55 am
I think we have covered about every angle on that ATI chip l3mce.  This is the SuperMicro machine I picked up with intentions of using as either a headless core or a NAS.  I can now use it as a fully functional hybrid after finding an old Audigy card with the odd PCI voltage notches.  To the best of my knowledge I have never gotten this system into AV Wizard, but from all of my (work?) testing dozens of machines I learned a few tricks to get around problems.  As much as I tried, true programing and coding never came to me so these are ugly hacks only and as I describe them you will see how frustratingly limited they are.  One thing I had to give up was having the hybrid Orbiter UI on a physical KVM switch because something as simple as not having the hybrid/core set as the active display will break it and require another reboot.


Fresh install (internet connection or not)
I am going to get a blue screen Failed to Setup X
From blue screen I go to tty2 and manually startx
root@dcerouter KDE desktop is where I end up with 2 items in my plasma panel "Desktop" and "New.pluto.xorg.conf"  ~exact name I can not recall
Rename that file to xorg.conf and move it to /etc/x11/xorg.conf
Manually enter the memorized settings I have for this Media Directory into web-admin otherwise the Xorg resolution is larger than the orbiter is drawn and I have the floating UI problem
Reboot and ignore as everything works better than could be expected... until...

Rebooting w/o an active internet connection is a gaurenteed Failed to Setup X situation.  No internet access = no Linuxmce unless I want to repeat the above
With internet on reboot or startup I see the message that xorg.conf is missing when it tries to use the Radeon Driver.  flgrx is used instead automagically (or as a result of my doing by the above)
Asking for help is also now more difficult because I have an odd installation that could in some way be causing all types of other issues nobody else would see. 

MD1 -
MSI P45 Neo, onboard Intel 7 channel audio (though I have always just plugged into the green 3.5mm jack and run that cable along with my DVI to HDMI cable) XFX GeForce 7600 GT Using the bottom DVI port which is DVI/HDMI-2 in setup wizard
Three PCI Sound Blaster Live! (5.1? cards) which have only been installed as 'could eventually use' for setting up squeeze players.
This machine we worked together on for a while as it refused to go into AV Wizard. What is more accurate now that I have installed/reinstalled/broke/.../... so many times is that it will go to AV Wizard on first boot but after that will refuse to ever again.  I have tried the ssh /usr/pluto/bin/RebootWithAVWizard.sh command and the onscreen orbiter command.



Questions:

The AlternateSC file is either a recent addition or something that previously didnt cause many issues so I am unfamiliar with it since my absence.  There is verbage in those threads that does not make much sense to me so I am quite lost on what to edit, where its located and what I want the outcome to be.  If anyonw could clarify these points for me I would be very grateful.

Is Multi-Channel audio and Multi-Soundcard the same option?
Are multiple sound cards required for running multiple Slim Device players? (linuxmce + squeeze[anything] pulls search hits for softsqueeze, squeezeslave, logitech media server, slim-devices, and about 30 others I cant recall offhand.  I just want to use use Slim Device Squeezebox Players/emulators)
Is alsamixer still being used?  I have edited and changed a lot of settings in the GUI version of this clicking unmute/mute and hoping it goes the right way.
It appears that xine player can rewrite the configuration files set up in AVwizard.  Where can I find a log of what application is using which system resource?  Using my pull out the cord and stick it back into each of the 10 green (analog?) and black (digital?) ports until I get sound works for announcements, and media.  It does not work for Asterisk calls or for MythTV, so I need a way to find out what they are trying to use.
TSCHAK beat it into my head that the best way to break LMCE is to think I know better and start to /mnt or assign things manually but while they are not in use (pending question 2 response) can I flag them as do not use, disabled, reserved, blacklisted?

 
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 10, 2013, 06:42:42 pm
I think we have covered about every angle on that ATI chip l3mce.  This is the SuperMicro machine I picked up with intentions of using as either a headless core or a NAS.  I can now use it as a fully functional hybrid after finding an old Audigy card with the odd PCI voltage notches.  To the best of my knowledge I have never gotten this system into AV Wizard, but from all of my (work?) testing dozens of machines I learned a few tricks to get around problems.  As much as I tried, true programing and coding never came to me so these are ugly hacks only and as I describe them you will see how frustratingly limited they are.  One thing I had to give up was having the hybrid Orbiter UI on a physical KVM switch because something as simple as not having the hybrid/core set as the active display will break it and require another reboot.

Fresh install (internet connection or not)
I am going to get a blue screen Failed to Setup X
From blue screen I go to tty2 and manually startx
root@dcerouter KDE desktop is where I end up with 2 items in my plasma panel "Desktop" and "New.pluto.xorg.conf"  ~exact name I can not recall
Rename that file to xorg.conf and move it to /etc/x11/xorg.conf
Manually enter the memorized settings I have for this Media Directory into web-admin otherwise the Xorg resolution is larger than the orbiter is drawn and I have the floating UI problem
Reboot and ignore as everything works better than could be expected... until...

Rebooting w/o an active internet connection is a gaurenteed Failed to Setup X situation.  No internet access = no Linuxmce unless I want to repeat the above
With internet on reboot or startup I see the message that xorg.conf is missing when it tries to use the Radeon Driver.  flgrx is used instead automagically (or as a result of my doing by the above)
Asking for help is also now more difficult because I have an odd installation that could in some way be causing all types of other issues nobody else would see.

AVWizard should go. I want to continue to fight this thing. AVWizard is a requirement, to set the appropriate sound card. See http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/topic,13115.0.html  and links contained therein. Though we have done this before, I need you to give me the output of lspci -nn | grep VGA

MD1 -
MSI P45 Neo, onboard Intel 7 channel audio (though I have always just plugged into the green 3.5mm jack and run that cable along with my DVI to HDMI cable) XFX GeForce 7600 GT Using the bottom DVI port which is DVI/HDMI-2 in setup wizard
Three PCI Sound Blaster Live! (5.1? cards) which have only been installed as 'could eventually use' for setting up squeeze players.
This machine we worked together on for a while as it refused to go into AV Wizard. What is more accurate now that I have installed/reinstalled/broke/.../... so many times is that it will go to AV Wizard on first boot but after that will refuse to ever again.  I have tried the ssh /usr/pluto/bin/RebootWithAVWizard.sh command and the onscreen orbiter command.

Yeah... you are going to have to find a couple of hours and drop into chat with me. With all the changes made... I would expect the latest snap to "just work" on all of this.

analog multi-channel is supported, but you will have to do a small bit of work. More on that in a bit.

Questions:

The AlternateSC file is either a recent addition or something that previously didnt cause many issues so I am unfamiliar with it since my absence.  There is verbage in those threads that does not make much sense to me so I am quite lost on what to edit, where its located and what I want the outcome to be.  If anyonw could clarify these points for me I would be very grateful.

It goes in /etc/pluto.conf
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Audio_in_1004


Is Multi-Channel audio and Multi-Soundcard the same option?

No.

Are multiple sound cards required for running multiple Slim Device players? (linuxmce + squeeze[anything] pulls search hits for softsqueeze, squeezeslave, logitech media server, slim-devices, and about 30 others I cant recall offhand.  I just want to use use Slim Device Squeezebox Players/emulators)

I don't think so, others will answer this better.

Is alsamixer still being used?  I have edited and changed a lot of settings in the GUI version of this clicking unmute/mute and hoping it goes the right way.

Yes. I really did a lot of work to make all this work ootb. Please grab the LATEST snap in http://linuxmce.iptp.org/snapshots/  currently http://linuxmce.iptp.org/snapshots/LMCE-1004-20130208151527169.iso

It appears that xine player can rewrite the configuration files set up in AVwizard.  Where can I find a log of what application is using which system resource?  Using my pull out the cord and stick it back into each of the 10 green (analog?) and black (digital?) ports until I get sound works for announcements, and media.  It does not work for Asterisk calls or for MythTV, so I need a way to find out what they are trying to use.

This has changed a lot very recently. I expect that everything will work with the latest. Check /etc/pluto/xine.conf (all that is relevant to what we do is in the last 4 or 5 lines... so tail -4 /etc/pluto/xine.conf )

TSCHAK beat it into my head that the best way to break LMCE is to think I know better and start to /mnt or assign things manually but while they are not in use (pending question 2 response) can I flag them as do not use, disabled, reserved, blacklisted?

You should not need to. Once you select the sound card you want in AVWizard (new menu, see first link) LMCE will NOT drift across cards.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 10, 2013, 06:59:35 pm
Crap. I am an idiot. Please replace the ATI Rages Utils.sh with this

http://svn.linuxmce.org/trac.cgi/export/27173/branches/LinuxMCE-1004/src/BootScripts/Utils.sh

The driver I BELIEVE will work for you (mach64) is currently hiding under intel detection instead of ati.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on February 10, 2013, 10:11:28 pm
Is Multi-Channel audio and Multi-Soundcard the same option?
Are multiple sound cards required for running multiple Slim Device players? (linuxmce + squeeze[anything] pulls search hits for softsqueeze, squeezeslave, logitech media server, slim-devices, and about 30 others I cant recall offhand.  I just want to use use Slim Device Squeezebox Players/emulators).

This may be of assistance with your initial issue of the sound card devices being detected in random orders on boot:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Set_the_default_sound_card

A multi-channel analog out (like on most Motherboards these days) can be split into seperate stereo outputs and used for seperate squeezeslaves.  This split is configured in asound.conf, here is an example:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=422129

hth.

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 14, 2013, 04:52:30 am
Mid-reinstall with the snap listed above and I am still skipping av-wizard and going straight to orbiter/home wizard with Sarah.  It will be a while before I can hop on IRC but this is the ATI Radeon being recognized, and the flgrx driver loaded on its own.  Let me know what logs you might need.

I messed up somewhere else and didn't get the boot loader off the install USB and onto the HDD.  Let me burn to plastic and give you my results once I am booting normally.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 16, 2013, 02:28:47 am
My evenings have been pretty busy lately L3mce and last night when I finally made time my ISP went down.  Sorry about that.

After reinstalling with the latest snapshot and running your replacement utils.sh my video driver is properly loaded and I no longer resort to flgrx.  However since that fix I have completely lost audio and am following along with several threads about audio trying to discern what the issue is.  The original issue was sound on an MD jumping output ports randomly, there is no MD yet in this install and I have no sound output on the core. 

Because all of my media was on a separate drive I have nothing to loose by breaking this install a few times until I can report what the solution was.  I am still just very confused with the manual entries necessary now, in one thread I need to modify AlternateSoundCards (which doesnt exist), in another I need to create a virtual soundcard with child devices, etc. 

Physically the card says "Audigy" so in web-admin I input that under soundcard
KDE calls it a CA106 but that device template only appears to have 2 outs and 1 in, where my card has 3 out and 1 in?

The files that will be most useful for me to look for, and ultimately help L3top I believe are:

/etc/pluto.conf
/usr/pluto/bin/asound.conf
/usr/pluto/bin/alsa/?
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on February 17, 2013, 12:46:02 am
Armorgnome,

No need to create any virtual sound card devices for Media Director audio/video, only if you want to use a multichannel analog sound card for multiple squeezeslaves.

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on February 19, 2013, 03:18:36 am
I am still quite confused by this terminology.  The living room MD has the green onboard audio connector going to my tv via 3.5 jack.  The other 5 jacks onboard are not connected to anything.

This MD also has 3 Sound Blaster PCI cards which each have four 3.5 jacks, also not connected to anything.

Is this a multi-channel analog setup?
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on February 19, 2013, 05:00:52 am
For the time being multichannel sound cards could be any sound card that is not your MDs primary sound device.  So, your onboard sound card connected to your TV is not currently considered a multichannel sound card (as far as our DeviceTemplates are concerned).

The 3 SoundBlasters could each be a created as multichannel sound cards.  Depending on the number of actual outputs on the cards they could provide from 1 to 4 stereo outputs each.  So you would then create stereo virtual cards as children of the multichannel card.  Then you could create squeezeslave devices in your device tree that point to these virtual sound cards.  So, you could run anywhere from 4 to 12 different squeezeslaves with your 3 SoundBlaster cards.  With very little configuration required.

I hope that helps to explain things.  Let me know if you need any assistance.

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: totallymaxed on February 22, 2013, 04:38:37 pm
Armorgnome,

No need to create any virtual sound card devices for Media Director audio/video, only if you want to use a multichannel analog sound card for multiple squeezeslaves.

J.

If you only have a 5.1 card in your NC or MD and you only want to use stereo audio for your MD audio/video then virtualising your physical sound card is the way to go as it will enable you to have in addition to the stereo audio for your MD two additional stereo outputs for use with Squeezeslaves. This makes much better use of your physical sound card and essentially gets you 'something for nothing' :-)

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 22, 2013, 05:07:24 pm
I think I finally understand the root of this issue ArmorGnome.

Try this... see if you have similar results.
http://pastebin.com/bsNeJVML

I have... no idea how I am going to go about fixing that... that is alsa.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on February 24, 2013, 12:23:49 am
We can specifify card orders for detection using modprobe.  This will take some playing and testing.  Will be a 1204 addition.  We can control card detection order and 'reserve' card IDs for specific devices.  That way when USB devices plug in/out they will always receive the same card id.

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on February 28, 2013, 11:10:03 pm
For now... I have dumped this into 1004 trunk. Armorgnome, please replace your /usr/pluto/bin/AVWizard_Run.sh with this
http://svn.linuxmce.org/trac.cgi/export/27234/trunk/src/AVWizard/scripts/AVWizard_Run.sh

reboot to AVWizard, finish, then please pastebin your /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf

Thanks!

This goes for anyone with more than 2 soundcards listed in aplay -l
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on March 01, 2013, 09:15:45 am
The primer is drying now on my new AV/server rack.  Until that is finished I really can't tear down more equipment to re-add cards until I am putting things back in their ultimate home.  Sparing you the details here, I have dedecated miscellaneous LMCE time ahead of that MD necessary to keep the household happy.  Within the week for sure!
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: posde on March 01, 2013, 11:12:49 am
For now... I have dumped this into 1004 trunk.

There is no such thing as a 1004 trunk. Trunk has nothing to do with 1004, if you want fixes for 1004 you should do it in branch 1004
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on March 01, 2013, 01:28:42 pm
I am using trunk as a testing repo... as prescribed. Once I know things work I will move them into repo. This, for instance, is the wrong approach.

I need to create udev rules, as currently if you have 5 of the same sound cards, this will not prevent slot flopping.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on March 02, 2013, 05:43:56 am
AG  try this

Code: [Select]
wget -P /usr/pluto/bin http://svn.linuxmce.org/trac.cgi/export/27256/people/l3mce/SetCardRules
chmod +x /usr/pluto/bin/SetCardRules

Then you can either run /usr/pluto/bin/SetCardRules or add that line to a0start_avwizard after CheckVideoDriver
This will run every boot obviously, and if a change is detected in cards, it will cement the new structure as they are added/removed. If you remove the card you have chosen previously in avwiz, avwiz will have to be run again... unless it was replaced with the same thing in the same physical slot.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on March 05, 2013, 03:32:30 am
I made some time today to test out the multiple sound card settings during general cleaning and organizing (didn't make it to either of those).

Prior to doing any changes today I did a lot of reading so I could get familiar with the terminology.  Mutliple channel audio I understand now as my receiver has inputs for that called conveniently "multi channel."

Here was the tested hardware and various configuration settings I attempted:

Intel HD (AC988?) onboard audio, 7.1+2 support - the +2 was not tested as that requires using the front panel header and somehow creates a separate zone of output.  Having read that in the mobo manual however I am curious about the possible necessity to create a virtual soundcard when this chipset is present?
PCI Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 x2
S/PDIF 3-pin mobo header connected to a SY-AUDI001 s/pdif extension plate  (found the pinouts online which with my mobo supply the 5V needed for TOSLINK and COAX digital)

No sound whatsoever in AV WIZARD

intel analog (with 3.5mm jack in all onboard ports one at a time)
intel digital coax
intel digital optical
hdmi

live analog (again testing each 3.5 port, I have the soundblaster pinout to connect the s/pdif but did not connect it)
live coax
live optical
live hdmi

live1 analog
live1 coax
live1 optical

The only configuration that made any noise whatsoever during AVWizard was when using the s/pdif setting of the intel card I heard the sub 'thud' every 10 seconds or so.  This came through during boot even so I doubt it had to do with ALSA or AVWizard attempting to play audio.  Perhaps during either a modprobe or my mobo checking for a connection signal a few bits are sent via s/pdif?

Just to rule out additional failure points in my signal I did connect various other devices to my receivers inputs and they played fine. IE, after I failed to get audio via S/PDIF optical from LMCE on optical1 of my receiver I hooked my PS3 up to optical1 and it played fine.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: l3mce on March 05, 2013, 03:47:13 am
I need to see
Code: [Select]
tail -9 /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf; cat /etc/udev/rules.d/85-linuxmce-audio.rules
I will have a new file tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: Armor Gnome on March 05, 2013, 05:52:49 am
For any audiophiles following this thread:

S/PDIF optical vs coax?  It is my understanding that there is no difference with short cable runs.  That and when using a jumper, there is no need to run the VCC line.

Digital vs. stereo?  Using a single 3.5mm jack is it possible to send a 5.1/7.1/10.2 signal?  Typically when I hear "stereo" I think analog left/right.  Multi-channel audio uses L/R, SL/SR, and C/Sw which again supports thinking that jack can only send analog 2 channel? 

Techie/Audiophile question:  If my assumptions about these signals is incorrect, how does S/PDIF Coax carry a raw digital signal over just 2 wires? 

For my next MD area I am looking to really focus on audio reproduction, so am hoping to learn some and get some recommendations.  Outside of the SB fatality series I wouldn't know where to begin looking.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on March 07, 2013, 05:33:53 am
Prior to doing any changes today I did a lot of reading so I could get familiar with the terminology.  Mutliple channel audio I understand now as my receiver has inputs for that called conveniently "multi channel."

Multi-channel really refers to any card that can output more than a single mono signal.  This includes stereo as well but often refers to anything that has more than 2 channels.  4/5.1(really 6)/7.1(really 8)

For LMCE any device that has 2 (or more) audio channels *could* be defined with a special "multichannel sound card" device template.  I say *could* because you do not have to define any of these devices, they are usually used to house child devices that are "stereo virtual sound card"s.  This allows us to split card that has 4/6/8 and split it into multiple stereo outputs, each with their own name, very useful for adding squeezeslave devices without adding additional hardware.  Example:  I have a motherboard in an onboard 7.1 analog audio (4x1/8" TRS connectors) and an hdmi output.  I use the hdmi output for the LMCE output and have 4 stereo squeezeslaves setup on my analog onboard sound card.  Each 1/8" jack is now a stereo pair that a squeezeslave outputs on.  I get 4xaudio zones without adding any additional hardware.

 It also allows you to do funky things like combine the output of 4 different channels down to 2.  The key thing to remember here is that you never *need* to define one of these devices unless you wish

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: phenigma on March 07, 2013, 05:43:30 am
S/PDIF optical vs coax?  It is my understanding that there is no difference with short cable runs.  That and when using a jumper, there is no need to run the VCC line.

S/PDIF vs coax.  This is an ongoing debate.  I find optical cables to be inexpensive and easy to run.  Coax can be a pain if you do not have a crimper and RCA ends to crimp on.  Adapters are usually extremely over priced.  I have used both, I hear no difference.

Digital vs. stereo?  Using a single 3.5mm jack is it possible to send a 5.1/7.1/10.2 signal?  Typically when I hear "stereo" I think analog left/right.  Multi-channel audio uses L/R, SL/SR, and C/Sw which again supports thinking that jack can only send analog 2 channel? 

A single jack can support only 2 channels.  See my earlier post re: multichannel.

Techie/Audiophile question:  If my assumptions about these signals is incorrect, how does S/PDIF Coax carry a raw digital signal over just 2 wires? 

Digital is completely different than analog, rather than a varying voltage/current it is a binary voltage switching consisting of 1s and 0s only.  These bits can be multiplexed together using time division multiplexing.  For example the devices would both conform to a standard method of transmitting/receiving.  A byte of data would be sent for CH1, then a byte for CH2, then CH3... to CH8.  8 bytes have been transmitted and the cycle restarts at CH1.  If additional channels (3-8 or 7-8) do not exist, then blank entries would be transmitted to be consistent.  This is a simplification but essentially how it works.

For my next MD area I am looking to really focus on audio reproduction, so am hoping to learn some and get some recommendations.  Outside of the SB fatality series I wouldn't know where to begin looking.

avrfreaks? perhaps for audio card recommendations.  I used to use high-end turtle beach cards, I don't think they exist anymore.

J.
Title: Re: Multiple sound cards, selected at random?
Post by: totallymaxed on March 19, 2013, 04:59:37 pm
Multi-channel really refers to any card that can output more than a single mono signal.  This includes stereo as well but often refers to anything that has more than 2 channels.  4/5.1(really 6)/7.1(really 8)

For LMCE any device that has 2 (or more) audio channels *could* be defined with a special "multichannel sound card" device template.  I say *could* because you do not have to define any of these devices, they are usually used to house child devices that are "stereo virtual sound card"s.  This allows us to split card that has 4/6/8 and split it into multiple stereo outputs, each with their own name, very useful for adding squeezeslave devices without adding additional hardware.  Example:  I have a motherboard in an onboard 7.1 analog audio (4x1/8" TRS connectors) and an hdmi output.  I use the hdmi output for the LMCE output and have 4 stereo squeezeslaves setup on my analog onboard sound card.  Each 1/8" jack is now a stereo pair that a squeezeslave outputs on.  I get 4xaudio zones without adding any additional hardware.

 It also allows you to do funky things like combine the output of 4 different channels down to 2.  The key thing to remember here is that you never *need* to define one of these devices unless you wish

J.

Yes what you describe works really well...we do this type of config in Dianemo all the time. In fact its a revelation once you start to explore the possibilities and the flexibility this offers. As you point out until the virtualisation of sound cards was implemented a physical 7.1 card was often only used for stereo out and the remaining outputs were inaccessible for any other purposes.

Andrew