LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: brent2009 on November 26, 2012, 11:30:26 pm

Title: In-wall touch screen
Post by: brent2009 on November 26, 2012, 11:30:26 pm
Can anyone recommend a cost effective nice touch screen for in wall mounting? similiar to this?

android based
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-HST-IWAR7-In-Wave-Touch-Screen-with-HSTouch-P1403C260.aspx

Also the ipad has some really nice in wall mounting devices that would look really nice and mount flush and the linuxmce orbiter im sure would work great with it but i just cant dish out $1000 for the ipad and a nice ipad mount. Seems like an overkill.

Thanks.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: brent2009 on November 27, 2012, 12:36:27 am
I found this and it might be worth looking into.. Not sure if it is meant to be mounted in the wall but I might give it a try...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-7-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen-/110865526317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d019ae2d

It should work well as a linuxmce orbiter... I hope!
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 27, 2012, 09:46:49 am
My plan is just to use cheap Android tablets with wi-fi weborbiter running. Haven't tried it yet but for me that seems a great option. You can have a wall bracket (with power) which they can potentially detach from and be roaming orbiters for controlling media directors or they can sit on the bracket as a wall-mounted orbiter/ security camera viewer. When Qorbiter is flying they can always move over to that as well.... haven't tried this, but those are my thoughts.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on November 27, 2012, 02:12:37 pm
jamo,

the problem with your regular tablet as a wall mount is, that there aren't any wall mounts that work universally, and most of the tablets I have seen have the power input on the smaller side of the tablet. This means, it looks very ugly, imho.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 27, 2012, 02:29:41 pm
Makes sense... as I said, hadn't tried it myself (was planning on ordering one) but yes, you do need power from the back otherwise it's going to be nasty.... hadn't thought of that.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: Randall on November 27, 2012, 04:53:22 pm
One option is to mod the case and resolder the power cable connection. But then you need to hide the brick...

Another issue (IMHO) is the lack of an ethernet port (which could also provide you with POE). At my place the 2.4GHz band is very crowded and my wifi often drops packets.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: Techstyle on November 27, 2012, 05:32:25 pm
I was going down the same route but going to go to a professional framing shop to get it framed and hide the side mounted power connector with the frame. I am sure I can buy a contempory styled frame that will complement the tablet.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on November 27, 2012, 05:57:28 pm
I went with a couple of O2 Jogglers and will get a local metal shop to provide a frame for it.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 28, 2012, 07:20:34 am
The brick, yes the brick... that's going to be another issue. This is turning into a useful discussion. Frames to hide the power jack make sense too but I was liking the idea of a removable tablet so that it could double as a roaming orbiter when required. I'm surprised no-one's made a decent wall bracket for tabs that provides discrete power and nice mounting and a clip-off feature.

O2 jogglers, I see, have ethernet which could also be nice for addressing both the wi-fi bandwidth and power (using poe) issue. Wonder if they're available in my neck of the woods...
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 28, 2012, 07:48:14 am
Did a bit of research on the joggler and it looks pretty neat. What's more, I appear to be able to order one in RSA provided I apply rule#1 liberally. Yay.

Bummers seem to be - 1. They apparently run quite hot... hopefully that doesn't become an issue and 2. Don't have a battery so the unplug and carry around option is out.

Still... looks like a very neat option for the in-wall mount or even counter-top digital photoframe/ touch-screen orbiter.

POSDE - have you actually used these things or do you still plan to work on that ;-)

[Edit: Just ordered one!]
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on November 28, 2012, 12:57:19 pm
I ordered two, made one work, send the other to a guy whose father is going to manufacture the metal frame for it. One reason for the metal frame is, that it will act as a heatsink as well, i.e. I will remove the current stand, and replace it with the frame. Regarding running hot: I am using the joggler atm as a free standing orbiter next to my viewing area, and it works without a problem.

And I already receive 5 more joggler..., so yes, they are my weapon of choice.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: l3mce on November 28, 2012, 05:18:41 pm
Possy, do these work PoE?
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on November 28, 2012, 07:09:07 pm
Together with a LevelOne PoE Splitter they do ;)
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: totallymaxed on November 29, 2012, 01:14:20 am
Can anyone recommend a cost effective nice touch screen for in wall mounting? similiar to this?

android based
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-HST-IWAR7-In-Wave-Touch-Screen-with-HSTouch-P1403C260.aspx

Also the ipad has some really nice in wall mounting devices that would look really nice and mount flush and the linuxmce orbiter im sure would work great with it but i just cant dish out $1000 for the ipad and a nice ipad mount. Seems like an overkill.

Thanks.

Really the days of in-wall touch screens are fading very quickly...we sell a tiny handful a year (atom based with in-wall-kit etc) but the vast majority of end customers choose to use iPad's because of the greater utility. If the App eco-system around Android tablets were better that might change... but currently there is no end customer demand. And I expect the iPad mini will make that deman even less likely.

You could take one of the Touch Orbiter Android builds (search the wiki for details) and get that working on your Android tablet of choice - Google Nexus 7 or Kindle Fire HD's would be good choices. We'd help where we could on that... but it should be pretty straight forward.

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 29, 2012, 08:01:03 am
Good to know from a market perspective, Andrew. I'm completely unqualified to comment from that perspective, of course, but my thoughts at the moment are the following-

There appear to be two issues there- the one is the "in wall" "Permanent" mounting and the other (to me at least) is the dedicated device aspect. What I'm getting at is this:

Dedicated device: It's cool to be able to control your system from your android / iphone but my problem with that is twofold- firstly, I use my phone for other stuff so generally it hasn't got the orbiter front and centre when I need it. And when I need it I need it now. Like I need to mute the music, change the song or see the security camera NOW. So to me it is getting to the point where I need one or two devices that are predominantly orbiters. You go to them or pick them up, touch the screen to perhaps turn the screen on and it's ready to go. A mate made this point when I was trying to tell him he needed a camera at his gate and how cool it was he could see it on any browser. But he responds he doesn't want to have to turn on the TV, change the source, open a browser, go to a bookmark etc. That's where I started thinking you need the dedicated device.... and therefore you don't need all the extra nonsense that comes with these devices, really just the touch-screen and ability to run some type of orbiter. So they should be pretty cheap and easy.

iPadmini/Android tablet, of course, are fine for that purpose I would imagine but probably overspec'd and certainly overpriced for what is required... especially if you want a couple lying around.

In the wall: From what you're saying it sounds as if there is less demand for this now, perhaps I'm still caught in the 90s or something and I still think it's pretty cool ;-) I quite like the idea of "on the wall" where there is a dedicated bracket with all the wiring for charging, possibly network etc and the device can do both- be lifted off its mount to be carried around as an orbiter or whatever but also put back to serve the purpose of a control-system where you expect it to be. To me there is great value in knowing where the control device is when you need it urgently.

Just some thoughts. Thanks again for the market perspective... always useful and something most of us might not be aware of with our individual needs.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: totallymaxed on November 29, 2012, 11:41:17 am
Well all of this comes down to personal choice in the end... and the flexibility of LinuxMCE and Dianemo means that pretty much anything can be accommodated. I do take your point about wanting dedicated devices, either loose untethered ones or in-wall. But having watched how people use the system over many years now I can say for the vast majority of users switching back and forth between App's on a device is no big deal (and happens in about 1-2 secs) and in reality it is only for alerting that you need to have the App on-screen as for the most part you use the Orbiter and then don't use it again for a extended periods of time.

Is the iPad over-specced? Well I don't think it is on reflection because in every instance I can think of people never end up using them in a 'single function' dedicated way. They always end up exploiting the fact that you can have a range of other Apps that are really incredibly useful on the iPad too - and its that fact, and that the iOS Orbiter works so well, that makes them very well suited to the job. The same would apply to Android if the App ecosystem were more developed of course.

In-wall Orbiters have other issues though... they are never actually where you need them is one. I can't tell you how many time we have heard - 'I wish i'd located it over there'. And that means when someone arrives at your gate you still cant see that they have! A better approach approach though to this issue is to have the house wide audio system just announce when you have someone at the gate or play a gate bell chime sound.

Having a wall mounting kit for a portable device is an approach you could take (as you suggest) and they can work well but the really good recessed ones are very expensive and as posde pointed out making connections to them in-wall is a big challenge.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on November 29, 2012, 11:51:38 am
Well all of this comes down to personal choice in the end...

Quite right... thanks for the feedback, I think it helps people who are making these decisions at design or planning time to see the types of options and things others are doing. Also helps to know what the market is generally doing because that is where the most supported hardware is likely to be.

Good to know.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on November 29, 2012, 06:19:28 pm
Well, we have both. We have the iPad and we have the Joggler. Both are at arms length near the couch for controlling our media consumption. There is ONE reason, why the iPad is demoted to a surfing machine: Speed. The orbiter sucks speedwise, when compared to any of the real Orbiters. Yes, the joggler doesn't have a battery, but it still is used more often than the iPad since we have it, because the speed difference is so notable. If I would have had the joggler first, removed it, and came with the iPad instead, SWMBO would have killed me. Even the WebDT is a faster Orbiter than the Dianemo or Roaming Orbiter on the iPad.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: tschak909 on November 29, 2012, 07:48:25 pm
the iPad's speed issues will go away once qOrbiter is ported over (and of course, we have fully formed skins). The performance of qOrbiter is even better than native Orbiter (yes, anecdotal)...

-Thom

Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: totallymaxed on November 30, 2012, 05:21:07 pm
Well, we have both. We have the iPad and we have the Joggler. Both are at arms length near the couch for controlling our media consumption. There is ONE reason, why the iPad is demoted to a surfing machine: Speed. The orbiter sucks speedwise, when compared to any of the real Orbiters. Yes, the joggler doesn't have a battery, but it still is used more often than the iPad since we have it, because the speed difference is so notable. If I would have had the joggler first, removed it, and came with the iPad instead, SWMBO would have killed me. Even the WebDT is a faster Orbiter than the Dianemo or Roaming Orbiter on the iPad.

Well I'm doing a back to back test here as i write this between an MD and a iPad1 running the Dianemo App on the LAN side of an NC... the Dianemo App is possibly 1-2 10th's of a sec slower. But no more. So in use that really is not important - we don't get complaints about the spped of the App in local mode at all. If you use the Dianemo App to remotely access your system then the delay can be much longer dependent on the internet connection you have and other factors in between.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on December 01, 2012, 02:19:30 pm
Both orbiter devices are connected on the LAN. And the difference between the two is very noticeable. Glad to hear that others don't feel this problem :)
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on January 17, 2013, 07:42:57 am
Just some update to what is quite an interesting topic to me....

I ordered the joggler which was, surprisingly, available in my neck of the woods, but when it arrived, it turned out to be a paperback book on the 02 joggler, not the actual device. How odd is that- there is a book out there that retails for the same price you'd expect of the device with the same name. Fortunately, the supplier was happy to refund but that put paid to my joggler plans.

Phase 2, I fell back on the Android tablet option and ordered a point-of-view mobii protab 27 7" android (4) tablet. Well, all well and good except the wifi on this unit was terrible. I used a neat Android app called "wifi analyzer" to check it and compared to my HTC one V, the tablet was consistently receiving 10Dbi or so worse signal. It would constantly drop the signal if I was more than 5-6m away fromt he access pt. Pathetic. Complaining to the support crowd didn't help as they promised to upload new firmware to the website but never did so I returned the tab.

Lesson learned - make sure the wifi is good on the tablet you buy or you're sunk. For weborbiter or Qorbiter that's an absolute necessity since most of these (cheap) tablets don't have a LAN connection as far as I can tell. It's difficult to evaluate wifi connectivity upfront but if you can, it's worth checking.

Never got around to mounting it or anything but I did notice that the power supply was 5 or 6v and I reckon that's pretty standard these days due to the proliferation of USB charging so it should be fairly easy to modify / purchase a POE splitter to supply the voltage and not have to worry about the brick if you're thinking of mounting. However, as pointed out by possy earlier on, they do tend to have the connections (power and usb) on the sides which could make neat mounting tricky.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: slampt on January 17, 2013, 09:19:37 am
Hey Jamo,

Just thought I would chime in here, I have a HP Touchpad mounted in my wall. I use a Modified USB cable to a POE Step down convertor that then plugs into my Switch.
It works rather well running android. I have just upgraded to CM10 as qOrbiter is meant to be a little bit more stable on it. So far I think the Linuxmce Orbiter posted here: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/topic,13064.0.html is a little more reliable.

I will post pics later if interested.

Slampt
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on January 17, 2013, 11:11:34 am
No pics - it doesn't exist!
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: slampt on January 18, 2013, 10:18:56 am
Ok ok! :P

Dirty hacks so far but nothing a little plaster/paint wont fix :P

http://www.slampt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/IMG_6909.jpg
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: jamo on January 18, 2013, 10:32:50 am
Looks good! Tell me, you're supplying power via POE/step-down but presumably network connectivity is wifi?

HP touch pads are not cheap in this part of the world, either I might add.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: slampt on January 18, 2013, 10:42:31 am
Yup,

POE from my switch stepped down to 5v.
When they launched the Touchpad here it was around the same time they decided to pack it in so I picked up mine for $99

Cheers
Slampt
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: purps on January 23, 2013, 09:06:21 pm
Well, we have both. We have the iPad and we have the Joggler. Both are at arms length near the couch for controlling our media consumption. There is ONE reason, why the iPad is demoted to a surfing machine: Speed. The orbiter sucks speedwise, when compared to any of the real Orbiters. Yes, the joggler doesn't have a battery, but it still is used more often than the iPad since we have it, because the speed difference is so notable. If I would have had the joggler first, removed it, and came with the iPad instead, SWMBO would have killed me. Even the WebDT is a faster Orbiter than the Dianemo or Roaming Orbiter on the iPad.

I am also a fan of the Joggler, and you can get them very cheap. Ours is free-standing next to the cooker, used for recipes, calendar, and of course controlling the kitchen MD. I have often thought about mounting one permanently (either in the wall or in a cupboard door), but of course something needs to be done about that metal stand

Possy, are you running Android on your Joggler(s)? If so, which one? And have you gone to any effort to hide the USB stick required to boot it?

Cheers,
Matt.
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: posde on January 23, 2013, 09:12:31 pm
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Posde#Notes_on_Joggler
Title: Re: In-wall touch screen
Post by: Foxi352 on February 03, 2013, 01:19:57 pm
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Joggler