LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: valent on May 07, 2012, 09:03:08 pm

Title: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: valent on May 07, 2012, 09:03:08 pm
http://blog.genie9.com/index.php/2012/05/03/microsoft-destination-smarthome/

Has Microsoft just reinvented LinuxMCE with their HomeOS home automation system?
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: JaseP on May 07, 2012, 11:54:48 pm
Yep,... Looks like they're getting on the bandwagon along with AT&T and everyone else,... Whataya wanna bet that they claim to have patented it and "revise" history to show they created the whole thing...
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: DragonK on May 08, 2012, 07:59:25 am
If its Microsoft.... It will have virusses and Trojans and worms...

I dont want worms in my setup.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: golgoj4 on May 08, 2012, 08:33:43 am
i see no news here.

meanwhile, LinuxMCE still needs a designer. jus sayin...

-golgoj4
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: valent on May 08, 2012, 08:53:59 am
i see no news here.

meanwhile, LinuxMCE still needs a designer. jus sayin...

-golgoj4

Agreed, Microsoft stuff isn't news but it is slick looking. Here are even more demos - http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/homeos/homeos-demos.htm and it looks like they are also using Vera for most of the stuff (AFAIK which shares lots of LinuxMCE code).
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: l3mce on May 08, 2012, 01:07:23 pm
If they are using vera then it is news.

This means saturation of more home automation products which will work with LMCE. I for one would be very happy about this.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 08, 2012, 02:58:14 pm
Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?  ;D
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 08, 2012, 05:18:01 pm
Agreed, Microsoft stuff isn't news but it is slick looking. Here are even more demos - http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/homeos/homeos-demos.htm and it looks like they are also using Vera for most of the stuff (AFAIK which shares lots of LinuxMCE code).

MS use Vera as a gateway to control ZWave devices... like some other HA systems do too. All of the items on this page are research projects funder by MS... showing for the most part that they can integrate with 3rd party stuff.

MS, AT&T, Verizon... and many other Telco's too are all looking at HA as way to jump into a new 'sticky' market for services built around the home. All the studies and research say that this market, the HA market, will grow at an average compound rate of 11-16% per year for the next 7-10 years. The US HA market today is valued at just over $3.3 billion per year.... you do the math. This market is already a big deal and its growing very reliably. Up to now HA has been a kind of invisible 'back water' but it has immense value to these companies as people tend to stick with what they know when it comes to their houses. Big companies love that characteristic ;-)

We see this as just 'growing' the market... its a massive and growing market and these big companies just validate it and accelerate growth in our view.

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 08, 2012, 06:39:21 pm
I worked at Duke Energy in Cincinnati on the Smart Grid project up until last year. They had a test project going on that was basically a smart home. Their model had the home automation, especially with regard to power delivery going through smart meters and I believe the ZigBee protocol. The test house/ neighborhood they had built in a warehouse in Northern Kentucky was quite impressive. I tried to get on as a test house, but that was all being done in North Carolina.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: JaseP on May 08, 2012, 06:51:02 pm
Does MS realize that the Vera is a Linux box?!?! I thought Ballmer said it causes cancer... or something like that. Between that and MS setting up 10K Linux Skype servers, I guess I am living in the twilight zone. I think it's hilarious that MS is using a Vera, when Homeseer Hometroller runs WinXP embedded...
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 08, 2012, 06:52:47 pm
I worked at Duke Energy in Cincinnati on the Smart Grid project up until last year. They had a test project going on that was basically a smart home. Their model had the home automation, especially with regard to power delivery going through smart meters and I believe the ZigBee protocol. The test house/ neighborhood they had built in a warehouse in Northern Kentucky was quite impressive. I tried to get on as a test house, but that was all being done in North Carolina.

There is so much happening right now. Yeah many of the SmartMeters that we are working with/looking at use ZigBee to link in the remote displays.

There is an incredible amount of activity in this whole space... another indication we saw just 6 weeks ago was the size of the eCoBuild show here in London - it was enormous and packed with people on all days too.

All the best


Andrew

Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 08, 2012, 08:19:01 pm
Does MS realize that the Vera is a Linux box?!?! I thought Ballmer said it causes cancer... or something like that. Between that and MS setting up 10K Linux Skype servers, I guess I am living in the twilight zone. I think it's hilarious that MS is using a Vera, when Homeseer Hometroller runs WinXP embedded...

Yes I'm sure MS realise Vera is running Linux...just like 99% of the Wifi AP and routers/switches are out there too. Fact is MS already has to work alongside Linux in almost every household and data-center.

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: JaseP on May 08, 2012, 08:40:34 pm
I just downloaded their whitepaper. It looks like they are indeed trying to reinvent LinuxMCE. They split their version of DCE router into two different layers, called DCL and DFL, essentially.

What is nice about what they are doing is focusing on the ease of use aspect of things. I didn't read the entire thing... and they are pretty far away from a shipping product... But it seems like a relatively unsophisticated user was able to use a kinect as a control interface to turn on appliances.

However, like LinuxMCE, the devil's in the details, and I don't believe that they would ever be able to release a finished project that didn't smack of "hobbyist" in terms of set up, maintenance, etc. In other words, they will have to deal with all the complexity issues surrounding integration that we do currently. And LinuxMCE has more than half a decade head start. They hint at this in the closing paragraphs. So, I think they realize that they have to do a lot more development work to even begin to make a finished project that the average person could use.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: davegravy on May 08, 2012, 08:48:09 pm
They do of course have a lot of capital, which can be used to give incentive to 3rd party hardware manufacturers to cooperate in the integration process.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 08, 2012, 09:06:19 pm
I just downloaded their whitepaper. It looks like they are indeed trying to reinvent LinuxMCE. They split their version of DCE router into two different layers, called DCL and DFL, essentially.

What is nice about what they are doing is focusing on the ease of use aspect of things. I didn't read the entire thing... and they are pretty far away from a shipping product... But it seems like a relatively unsophisticated user was able to use a kinect as a control interface to turn on appliances.

However, like LinuxMCE, the devil's in the details, and I don't believe that they would ever be able to release a finished project that didn't smack of "hobbyist" in terms of set up, maintenance, etc. In other words, they will have to deal with all the complexity issues surrounding integration that we do currently. And LinuxMCE has more than half a decade head start. They hint at this in the closing paragraphs. So, I think they realize that they have to do a lot more development work to even begin to make a finished project that the average person could use.

I agree they are trying to address ease of use and all that entails. But I suspect that they are aiming at the wrong place in terms of end-user simplicity at least. What is pretty clear to us is that the mass market requires something that essentially requires no programming and either no specialist installation or something akin to what the cable guy in the US or a Sky TV installer does here in the UK - ie very basic and simple physical install.

Programmability is important so that you can pre-configure or adjust configs after installation - i'm not advocating in any sense the removal of software programmability from HA devices...just that your aunty/mum doesn't need that. I'm also not suggesting that we're there already and MS aren't... but I do agree we're closer and liley to get there first.

Also I am pretty sure that most big service providers are very unlikely to roll-out a pure MS solution... they know where that will lead them and it aint pretty ;-)

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 08, 2012, 09:13:51 pm
They do of course have a lot of capital, which can be used to give incentive to 3rd party hardware manufacturers to cooperate in the integration process.

Yes they do. But I think that this will be far outweighed by the resistance more service providers have to ceding everything to MS again. The fact is these mass market HA devices are going to be very light weight low cost devices right from get go and that better fits the Open, Linux based path than the MS route. The only fly in that ointment is what Apple might do next... they have a closed ecosystem but they know how to deliver simplicity and if they decided to do something like an AppleTV device that was able to do a tiny amount of HA... that might be a different story.

However even if Apple decide to play in this market... the market is so lbig and growing so quickly that there is room for a lot of players in the medium term.

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 08, 2012, 09:54:46 pm
I think what you are going to eventually see, is some sort of consortium of all the major players come together to develop and license some sort of standard. I know this sort of effort is already underway, its just a matter of what players eventually join.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: golgoj4 on May 09, 2012, 01:53:25 am
all this discussion in theory...when someone could have made some qml and moved our already awesome system to one that awesome looking.

expect more broken record.

-golgoj4
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: JaseP on May 09, 2012, 02:45:23 am
I think everyone is in agreement on most points. Question is,... Who knows how to make pretty pictures for a snazzier UI??
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: golgoj4 on May 09, 2012, 03:20:56 am
one thing is for sure, not me! I make children cry its so bad. the horror, the horror...
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 09, 2012, 03:44:59 pm
Golgoj4,

I know I may get yelled at for this, but both XBMC and myth have some nice skins, why not borrow some of their ideas?
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: DragonK on May 09, 2012, 03:53:01 pm
Golgoj4,

I know I may get yelled at for this, but both XBMC and myth have some nice skins, why not borrow some of their ideas?

Golgoj is allready busy with it, but needs help....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pf-9PbneXE

Karel
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: coley on May 09, 2012, 04:10:41 pm
Merkur2k has done some work on porting the Aeon skin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptff7Zq1tKo

-Coley.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 09, 2012, 04:14:42 pm
Really like the Aeon work.  Great work guys!
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: posde on May 09, 2012, 04:57:03 pm
kyfalcon,
I know I may get yelled at for this, but both XBMC and myth have some nice skins, why not borrow some of their ideas?

you are not getting yelled at, but you just volunteered to creating screens using your favorite paint program, which utilize the design of the XBMC skin you like best. Please create screens for

# Telecom scenarios
# Lighting scenarios
# Media scenarios
# Room selection
# User selection
# Security scenarios

As soon as you have finished your first screen, forward the screen to merkur2k so he that he can code it into QML.

Thanks a lot for volunteering.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: DragonK on May 09, 2012, 05:33:13 pm
kyfalcon,
you are not getting yelled at, but you just volunteered to creating screens using your favorite paint program, which utilize the design of the XBMC skin you like best. Please create screens for

# Telecom scenarios
# Lighting scenarios
# Media scenarios
# Room selection
# User selection
# Security scenarios

As soon as you have finished your first screen, forward the screen to merkur2k so he that he can code it into QML.

Thanks a lot for volunteering.

Would it really be that easy?
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: posde on May 09, 2012, 05:59:10 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 09, 2012, 06:10:07 pm
Yes.

To get me to volunteer or DragonK to create a skin?  ;D
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: DragonK on May 09, 2012, 07:00:30 pm
You to volunteer...
I allready started a new skin... But hit a few speed humps and then lost interest.
Havent worked on it for over a year.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: posde on May 09, 2012, 08:17:10 pm
kyfalcon,

To get me to volunteer or DragonK to create a skin?  ;D

do you need any more pointers to start?
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: mkbrown69 on May 09, 2012, 09:08:02 pm
kyfalcon,

do you need any more pointers to start?

Kyfalcon,

Me thinks you've been "volun-told"...  ;)

/Mike
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: posde on May 09, 2012, 09:17:45 pm
The point here is: There is no excuse. Anybody can go ahead, make a copy of the current scenario screens of the Basic UI from the web orbiter for example, get a skin from a different project, and use GIMP/Photoshop/Paint/Whatever to redraw the LinuxMCE screen using the style of the other skin. The ONLY thing that is needed is *time*.

Everybody has 24hours most of the days (two days may be excepted from this rule), so get your priorities straight, and instead of bitching about and making clever suggestion, go and start doing it. Start for example with the regular DVD remote control and make it nice using a different skin as a design idea.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: l3mce on May 09, 2012, 09:42:50 pm
To put a fine point on it...

People often ask how they can contribute, and skins are where non-code happy folks often end up... HADesigner was no joke for your average designer though... so a lot of folks became disheartened over the years.

This is very different. This is "So easy a mac user could do it."™  :P
It just takes time.

How cool would it be knowing not only that everybody was using your skin, but that you personally helped LMCE overcome its longest held detraction of "ugly UI"? I have always been very utilitarian in my UI needs... but the traffic that XBMC draws (and with traffic comes developers) just because it's pretty... Help! Do! No more stalling! No more promises!

DO!
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: kyfalcon on May 09, 2012, 10:05:49 pm
Posde don't get me wrong, I am in no way upset at your suggestion. You are correct about time being the only thing needed. I will try and get something together when I have time. My first priority is my family. Then second is to get the MD working in my kids room, which I am having the HDMI sound issues on. Once that's done I will take a look at putting something together. I'll try and research some different HTPC skins that are out there and come up with something. The sad thing is I used to work at 2 companies where I had access to some very talented Graphic Designers that really could have put something snazzy together, Me I am a developer which automatically makes me graphically challenged.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: totallymaxed on May 09, 2012, 11:57:24 pm
Somehow this thread seems to have gone 'off topic' in a big way... the topic it drifted into is an important one of course... but it would be better moved elsewhere ;-)

Andrew
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: l3mce on May 10, 2012, 12:23:56 am
Keeping in mind HomeOS is only a research project at this point... they have not decided to go forward with productization. I for one, hope they do move forward.
Title: Re: HomeOS - Microsoft reinvents LinuxMCE
Post by: davegravy on May 10, 2012, 03:39:23 am
Keeping in mind HomeOS is only a research project at this point... they have not decided to go forward with productization. I for one, hope they do move forward.

That said, I have heard devs refer to THIS project as a "research platform".  There's a fine line I suppose...