LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: bongowongo on August 24, 2011, 07:27:26 pm

Title: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 24, 2011, 07:27:26 pm
Reacting will result in that you commit to these rules and that you will do effort for this project, unless you already proved your commitment to LinuxMCE

This is an attempt to create a structured workgroup to establish the following:

What

Who
People who cannot code, but want to help
People with common sense
People with endurance (deadlines will be made and kept)
People with team spirit

Why
It is needed, but it is not possible to let this be done by one person, or persons who do not commit themselves to the task.
Experience tells me, a lot is said, and done for 2 - 3 months and the initiator flies away. I want to prevent this. That is why we need a team.

What not
People who think they can influence the direction of the Dev's
People who think they gain power and influence doing this
People who do not listen
People who think that managers are the greatest asset to a company (they are not, I know, I am a manager)
People who think that tedious jobs will be done by others


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok I am going to something evil and wrong here, just like Napoleon.
But I am going to crown myself manager of this project

Not because I need the extra work, or I want to hostage LinuxMCE, but I think it is needed for this type of project.
Later we can decide otherwise.

Reacting will result in that you commit to these rules and that you will do effort for this project, unless you already proved your commitment to LinuxMCE

If you mingle in the discussion you will are a participant of the project, let's put the money where the mouth is.
Blurting out ideas is not what I am seeking. Open to suggestions of course.

Reacting will result in that you commit to these rules and that you will do effort for this project, unless you already proved your commitment to LinuxMCE
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: golgoj4 on August 24, 2011, 07:41:31 pm
groovy. So is there going to be a wiki page laying out open tasks and such or are we going to use trac to file tickets against wrong or outdated information?

-golgoj4
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 24, 2011, 08:15:33 pm
groovy. So is there going to be a wiki page laying out open tasks and such or are we going to use trac to file tickets against wrong or outdated information?

-golgoj4

Good point
We have to asses the wiki, and make small tasks. Otherwise it is not doable.
I prefer it not to be in SVN, but maye a sticky topic.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 24, 2011, 09:54:25 pm
0810
1 netboot MD 3 orbiters 15.6GB with no media on the drive

Just an example of info in another forum-post we can thrive on
A simple forum post.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 24, 2011, 10:42:01 pm
ok last post for several days, but look at this google

http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy&hl=nl&biw=994&bih=891&source=hp&q=plcbus&pbx=1&oq=plcbus&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10870l11740l0l11874l6l5l0l0l0l0l305l1080l0.2.2.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3b3ac27929253a8b (http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy&hl=nl&biw=994&bih=891&source=hp&q=plcbus&pbx=1&oq=plcbus&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10870l11740l0l11874l6l5l0l0l0l0l305l1080l0.2.2.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=3b3ac27929253a8b)

I know it is a niche market, but we are apperantly the only with the knowledge
In the end we will be a knowledge powerhouse, if we organise the wiki properly, and that will attract a lot of positive attention.
 
Well that is what we should aim for.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: purps on August 25, 2011, 11:59:46 am
Thanks for volunteering to lead this bongowongo, it will certainly need your tenacity.

I'm in.

Whilst we do need to "get on with it", assessing the wiki as you said and planning carefully how we go about sorting it is important.

Cheers,
Matt.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: klovell on August 25, 2011, 05:47:10 pm
I'll help out. 

However, Between my 9-5 (which is more like 7-6), my clients on the side, my new born, and most importantly my wife, I don't know how much time I'll be able to commit.  I'll give it a shot but this will come after all the above.  I know everyone has a story but I'm just setting your expectations for me.

How will we be coordinating our efforts (email, PMs, IRC, or posts)?
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: Techstyle on August 25, 2011, 06:02:19 pm
I am also in (but have similar constraints to Klovell)
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: fibres on August 25, 2011, 07:12:54 pm
Im definatly in. I unfortunatle do not have the head or aptitude to code, drives me up the wall.

I am good a documentation though. I will find time in amongst my other commitments.

Regards
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 25, 2011, 10:15:50 pm
In the end I didn't go away for a few days, lucky you!

So we have a

fibres
Techsyle
Klovell
Purps
BongoWongo

Welcome aboard

I agree that time is an issue for everybody.
But if we divide everything into smaller tasks it doesn't matter that you have little time at least if you keep your promisses if you take a task upon you.

The wiki is huge and dis-organized.
I saw a lot of ideas going around

Just putting it out there.
Some tasks that need to be done.

Make it more clear / easier for newbies
We have to redo the manual / frontpage wiki, the important part about this that it needs to be maintained. If we have the proper people with skills, redo the youtube video

We lack uniformity
Try to come up with some form of standardisation for that pages, this is going to be a rough one

Maybe a new task is to make a self-help advisory page
e.g. how to report a trac ticket, where the logs are, how to get into irc etc etc etc etc. So information about bugs can be presented to dev's more easily. A lot of time I see in IRC dev's explaining where to get information to see what is wrong.



Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: nzlneil on August 26, 2011, 03:39:19 am
I'd like to put my hand up to help. I do have similar constraints as some of the others, but will do what I can as I can.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: Dan249 on August 26, 2011, 03:53:14 am
I want to help also!
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 26, 2011, 08:44:28 am
I'll help out. 

However, Between my 9-5 (which is more like 7-6), my clients on the side, my new born, and most importantly my wife, I don't know how much time I'll be able to commit.  I'll give it a shot but this will come after all the above.  I know everyone has a story but I'm just setting your expectations for me.

How will we be coordinating our efforts (email, PMs, IRC, or posts)?


I propose we use this topic to identify tasks, and then make forum post of them

We can also make a wikipage, to make an overview of who is doing what.

Maybe it is best to firstly make a draft of manual/frontpage/howto's instead of making it directly in the now present wiki pages.

Also, welcome Dan249 and nzlneil :)
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: DragonK on August 26, 2011, 01:59:38 pm
Hi,

Im back, so add me to the list pls.

Karel
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 27, 2011, 06:45:20 am
Hi wiki's

So here is updated list of participants

fibres
Techstyle
Klovell
Purps
BongoWongo
DragonK
Dan249
nzlneil

Also I have made an attempt for a first task
Frontpage of the wiki

http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/board,347.0.html
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: twodogs on August 27, 2011, 08:30:16 pm
I'd like to help.

Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: purps on August 27, 2011, 10:49:14 pm
Is there any easy way to produce/view a hierarchical list of how the wiki is currently laid out? Or just a list of pages showing how the categories are organised? Just from the point of view of working out what needs doing and where.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: frustrated on August 28, 2011, 06:39:20 am
I'd like to help.  I'm new, but I'm a fast learner.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: Kezza on August 28, 2011, 10:26:04 am
I'll help where I can.

It would be good to have a central place for communication. Is it possible to have something like a forum board or even a child board for wiki under users or developers?

The install documentation appears to be massive and I had planned to go through all those pages and add the category install to them to group all the pages together and then start hacking out duplication etc. Maybe something that could be applied else where as we find things needing to be cleaned up?
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 28, 2011, 10:55:00 am
I'll help where I can.

It would be good to have a central place for communication. Is it possible to have something like a forum board or even a child board for wiki under users or developers?

The install documentation appears to be massive and I had planned to go through all those pages and add the category install to them to group all the pages together and then start hacking out duplication etc. Maybe something that could be applied else where as we find things needing to be cleaned up?

Your wish is my command
http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/board,355.0.html

And welcome

twodogs
frustrated
kezza
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 28, 2011, 11:06:08 am
Is there any easy way to produce/view a hierarchical list of how the wiki is currently laid out? Or just a list of pages showing how the categories are organised? Just from the point of view of working out what needs doing and where.

Possy told me that the following page could give you somewhat of a hierarchy
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Special:SpecialPages
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: purps on August 28, 2011, 11:55:29 am
Possy told me that the following page could give you somewhat of a hierarchy
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Special:SpecialPages

That is going to be very useful.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on August 28, 2011, 12:03:36 pm
That is going to be very useful.

What is your goal that you want to accomplish? You want to make a topologie of all the pages?
Do I smell a task :) ?
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: rchamp on September 12, 2011, 10:00:28 pm
I'd like to help as well...  ;D
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: purps on September 12, 2011, 10:06:52 pm
What is your goal that you want to accomplish? You want to make a topologie of all the pages?
Do I smell a task :) ?

Sorry bongo, I missed this reply. What do you mean topologie? Does this refer to the side pane contents bar we've been talking about?
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: mcefan on October 01, 2012, 05:52:32 am
Topology comes from the mixture of 2 words: topos (place) ans logos (word/explanation/intelligence). It's about how it came to look the way it does (like landscaping), the reason things look the way they do.

So, the question could be rephrased as: are you trying to create a logical tree of the subjects covered in all existing pages?
If bongowongo meant something else, he/she can clarify (what i explained is the meaning the sentence carries).



The link proposed above links to all special pages, that will not give you what you are looking for.

I realized that people need some help with the actual use of the wiki software, so I wrote a couple of articles. Please read the articles linked on my user page. Look at the section titled "ongoing", and read the articles on categories. You will find a link in it that will give you access to the structure you are looking for in the section "How to display the index of the existing categories".
Just so you know, there was no predefined structure, so all the categories end up forming a flat structure instead of a tree.
Categories are the equivalent of folders. They should be hierarchical.

What needs to happen now:

The top of the tree should not change if it's comprehensive when created.
Also, no page should be placed in a category. The proper place should be a subcategory. That way, categories will automatically create the structure you are looking for, and enable people to drill down subject matters.

If there is no clearly predefined structure, we can not expect people to place their writings in the proper place. We need a page instructing people on how to pick the right categories, rather than merely telling them to categorize. It's simply not enough.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on October 01, 2012, 05:03:26 pm
Topology comes from the mixture of 2 words: topos (place) ans logos (word/explanation/intelligence). It's about how it came to look the way it does (like landscaping), the reason things look the way they do.

So, the question could be rephrased as: are you trying to create a logical tree of the subjects covered in all existing pages?
If bongowongo meant something else, he/she can clarify (what i explained is the meaning the sentence carries).



The link proposed above links to all special pages, that will not give you what you are looking for.

I realized that people need some help with the actual use of the wiki software, so I wrote a couple of articles. Please read the articles linked on my user page. Look at the section titled "ongoing", and read the articles on categories. You will find a link in it that will give you access to the structure you are looking for in the section "How to display the index of the existing categories".
Just so you know, there was no predefined structure, so all the categories end up forming a flat structure instead of a tree.
Categories are the equivalent of folders. They should be hierarchical.

What needs to happen now:
  • create a list of top categories
  • create some subcategories
  • recategorize pages by placing them in the subcategories

The top of the tree should not change if it's comprehensive when created.
Also, no page should be placed in a category. The proper place should be a subcategory. That way, categories will automatically create the structure you are looking for, and enable people to drill down subject matters.

If there is no clearly predefined structure, we can not expect people to place their writings in the proper place. We need a page instructing people on how to pick the right categories, rather than merely telling them to categorize. It's simply not enough.

Yes this is what I meant. But how do you educate people? Maybe make it impossible for them to make a general catagory so they are forced to make an subcatagory?
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: mcefan on October 01, 2012, 05:17:05 pm
But how do you educate people?

We need to try to communicate our methods upfront.
Write a page that will give orientation like the one here: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Contributing_to_LMCE


Maybe make it impossible for them to make a general catagory so they are forced to make an subcategory?

I don't know if that's possible.
We need to educate people, I don't know any other way.

Also, we need to stay on top of it on a daily basis and clean up. That's a job for administrators (they know the subjects and where things should belong).
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: bongowongo on October 01, 2012, 06:51:28 pm
We need to try to communicate our methods upfront.
Write a page that will give orientation like the one here: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Contributing_to_LMCE


I don't know if that's possible.
We need to educate people, I don't know any other way.

Also, we need to stay on top of it on a daily basis and clean up. That's a job for administrators (they know the subjects and where things should belong).

Well my cleanup consisted of deleting 5900350935 spam pages a day. So there was no real normal time left. I see now the spamming is under control. But I am more fan for fixed catagories.
Title: Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual
Post by: mcefan on October 01, 2012, 10:07:05 pm
Maybe a higher number of administrators?