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General => Installation issues => Topic started by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 03:57:21 pm

Title: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 03:57:21 pm
Hello there everybody,

I'm not new in the computer branch but trying to turn my home in a centralized TV, Movie, Music and photo system. I don't have much to spend and what i have is all old treats, left overs from the past so no new stuff.
As i'm still working on an old compaq EN Pentium III with only 512 Mb on board, i'm trying first to change the IP, did that, works almost ok and if i put myself in 10.11.10 - range, i can open the adminpage and so on.
I also changed the password for the admin, or first user (They really should think of a better way doing that ;)) and think that i might ask you here for the real problems i can't figure out.
After a while i found that the only way in properly setting the IP was via the webadmin page. It might have something to do with the age of the pc, i don't know, but i really would like to know if anyone else faced this.
Also changing the admin password was a search and i did that also via the webadmin page i got there, done that. What i can't figure out is something you might help me with:

1)Adding a Media Director, i could not find a way to it. I must have overlooked it, and really would like to see it work. Thanks for helping me on this...

2)The next problem i face is media. Movies, mp3 photo's, how can i access it if my livingroom screen in orbiter is empty, only the telecom section and security which i don't have.

3)The last is that all media i have is in the server room, server w2003 with 8 tb, holds movies, tv shows and music, a terastation 1tb with foto's in subdirs and a copy of movies and mp3 on a open filer system.
How can i add my W2003 server in the core and make them available for the other rooms.

Well, that's it for now, i can't think of anything else, but i'm going to try and find it myself in the mean time.
Thanks for response..

Anne
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Aviator on March 17, 2011, 04:23:02 pm
1) To add a media director, first you will need to SSH into the core, putty works well for this if you are using Windows.  You can also use the KDE desktop on the core and pull up a terminal session. From the terminal, run sudo /usr/pluto/bin/Diskless_CreateTBZ.sh - this sets up the MD image.  Next, go into the web admin and choose Media Directors from the left hand column. Scroll down and click the Add Device button.

2) You should have audio and video options available in the core's onscreen orbiter.  You will need to use UI1 on that hardware.

3) Share your media folders on the 2003 server and the core should find them automatically as long as the 2003 server is connected to the core's internal NIC (I'm assuming you have 2 NIC's in the core?).  Once you have entered the credentials for the share, the media will be available to the core and all MD's.

Is the P3 your core or your MD?

Hope this helps and welcome to LinuxMCE!

Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 07:24:47 pm
Whoa  :D man! what a smooth answer, other forums they first nag at you, then they nag about the nagging  :D and then after some explaining etc there is slightly an answer, but most of the other forums i've been to people always, almost always tell to RTFM or forum.  :D
So, i'm happy that you gave me this answer.
Yes, the P3 is a test core machine, this weekend i pick up another very much newer pc at my father-in-law's house and bombard this one to Core or central unit. The W2003 server i have holds those 8 TB (RAID 5) with some windows shares, but it did not said it found one of them. I shared Films and Music as i use an A.C.Ryan mini-HD connected in my bedroom and via that device i can watch media, for now without a problem, i log in and i can watch. So, the tips you gave, i'm gonna try, but first i want an answer about something weird.
I used for years in my home the ip range 10.11 class B 16 bit subnetmask and i had my core's both networkcards steered to 10.11.10.209 and 10.11.10.210
Now i can't always communicate fluently with it via DHCP on my W2003 server, dealing 10.11.11 adresses. So i changed subnet from 255.255.255.0 to 255.255.0.0 but i still think it can't connect so good. (the orbiters and webpage i mean) That's for later. Now i'm first gonna try to Putty...
Thanks so far, i'll contact here if i get stuck.
Anne

Putty did not work, i guess it does not like me, i used ROOT, LinuxMCE, anne and all were not accepted on the internal lan ip. Now you are gonna tell me that i need External lan hey?
So, gonna go to the core upstairs and try it through KDEdesktop.

Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: bongowongo on March 17, 2011, 07:42:45 pm
To what are you trying to connect using putty?
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 07:45:03 pm
To 10.11.10.209 and/or 10.11.10.210
209 is internal and 210 is external. Am i doing it the wrong way?

Sorry, my bad
EXTERNAL_IP 10.11.10.209
EXTERNAL_NETMASK 255.255.0.0
EXTERNAL_DHCP 0
INTERNAL_IP 10.11.10.210
INTERNAL_NETMASK 255.255.0.0
GATEWAY 10.11.10.201
DNS1 10.11.10.201
DNS2 10.11.11.1
Nope, still no luck on this. Gonna try the other way, to the core!
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: tkmedia on March 17, 2011, 08:23:49 pm
You need to have two different networks and have lmce be the dhcp server for the internal network.

The best is to use the default ip and dhcp address range for the internal network. 192.168.80.x

and have your media directors as well as file servers on that network in order for them to work pnp.


HTH

Tim
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 08:35:36 pm
Hi,

I'm not accepting it that in my line of work i'm gonna use a device, not thouroughly tested enough, replaced for thé most important DHCP server in my network .
I know, and vagely start to understand that the core's dhcp is vital for the other devices, but i can't exclude them from my existing network. I also use a clearOS as firewall/proxy, so that option i'm not gonna use either.
I think that it must be possible to alter my existing DHCP so that all devices, servers, wireless, pc's etc. are gonna benefit from it, what do you think?
A co-worker who uses distro MCE 8, saids that using one nic is possible. Mine does not have to firewall/route everything, it should be used to the best ability, namely: A media device.
I keep things this way because i'm to keen on changing everything internally, so i'm not gonna change to 192.168, simply, i can't.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 17, 2011, 08:39:03 pm
I wish i had simple questions, but somehow i kinda make them difficult all the time... sorry.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: tschak909 on March 17, 2011, 09:50:14 pm
You're being bull-headed, and obstinate, and will cause yourself undue pain and anguish for yourself and everyone else helping you on this forum. This product is not for you, if all you want is media playback. It is a smart home platform.

So please, stop wasting everyone's time; including your own.

-Thom
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 18, 2011, 08:12:15 am
So Thom, you got yourself a hang-on there, your reply is one of the most earlier spoken of bad answers.
I assume you read all my posts here, then you must have been figuring out that having an old system being replaced, just asking for flexibility within Linux MCE.
I do believe that every system, and i mean EVERY system can be adapted in any existing network. Those questions i asked came after three days searching without luck.
So do not be so short, if your world exists around this system, and it is the first in your home, i agree. Build then everything around it.
But there must be another way and i almost got there by myself, almost. So i really do not want to hear that i should change every device, webservers, NAS, TS's, file servers, mailservers, routing configuration, firewall and all loose devices to your option?
That is short minded and absolutely not the thoughts of a person who is in Linux.
As this is my first big attempt making such device working, i keep on going. Because i'm a system- and networkcontroller for many many years and not intended to give up so easily. Thank you for attempting me to throw of this project, you failed.
Anne
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: maverick0815 on March 18, 2011, 10:26:18 am
perhaps you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. if you want to use lmce, you have to some degree play by its rules. lmce can only find and incorporate your media, if you give it enough control about it- hence it needs to be dhcp for all the devices connected to it. So, if you think its not "fit" enough for "productive system" in your home, whats keeping you from having two separate networks for the time being...one to familiarize and test lmce and the other one for your everyday use. Once you figured lmce out for yourself, you can always make the switch. In the end, you have to find out for yourself, if lmce is for you or not. I know Thom seems to be very harsh in his answers, but try to see his point too- very, very few developers...and lots of demands on the software, some reasonable, some not.
I'm using this system since 7.10 and I wouldn't ever trade it for anything else, though I'm not a linux geek myself.
Perhaps, if you only want a media device, as you said, you should explore other things like xbmc or mythbuntu first and see, if they give you, what you want. Linuxmce is really so much more than just a media-device... in a way the "mce" doesn't really do the system justice and maybe is sometimes a bit misleading.
Look and all the functionality of it, and then think about all the things, you don't want to use..then think, if its really for you.
If you have questions about how to get the system going in a proper way, there are lots of  competent and helpful people around, who will be happy to help you
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: bongowongo on March 18, 2011, 11:36:26 am
To sum it up
Abide the system rules / 2nics / nvidia / dhcp etc
or
You are on your own, and you need to dev it yourself to work. The more kudo's you get the more people will want to help you.
It is not being not nice, it is because we have very low resources to help somebody on his hobby inside a hobby project.
We need to release and support 0810 and focus on the next step (1004).
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 18, 2011, 01:05:34 pm
Thanks Maverick, it's much better to find that i did not see things completely wrong. I will try to set up this weekend version 7.10 and go with it as i can. I'm happy to get the green light in asking some 'stupid' questions, and i know you dev's meet daily people who ask silly questions, but i will first try to get it working the way i want to becaus like you said, it is a BEAUTIFULL system, and i watched on youtube all the movies about people who had it installed and kept thinking, that is what i need, that is what i want. So to make this thought reality i HAVE to make it truth.
I keep trying and hoping i find the answers to make it work.
@Bongowongo, i try to make it work the way i believe is the right way, it is surely a hard one and often i have to stop and reconcile my steps, but eventually i'm hoping that it works without your help (not that i don't appreciate, i do!) and i switch in a future stadium to the latest version. This is all a test for me just to get to know the system...
Thanks so far...
Anne
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: maverick0815 on March 18, 2011, 01:17:16 pm
Anne, if I were you, I'd rather go with 8.10 instead of 7.10...7.10 is completely obsolote. Just think about TV-cards for example...most of that stuff is pnp in 8.10, but requires a lot of manual work in 7.10...its just not worth it.
Download the latest snapshot and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: bongowongo on March 18, 2011, 01:56:10 pm
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Snapshot_overview
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: tschak909 on March 18, 2011, 03:04:15 pm
You seem to misunderstand.. I'm one of the lead developers, and I'm telling you, you're in for months of pain, and reduced functionality, if you do not set it up the way it was intended.

Unless, of course, you're actually willing to make patches and contribute to the code base?

-Thom

So Thom, you got yourself a hang-on there, your reply is one of the most earlier spoken of bad answers.
I assume you read all my posts here, then you must have been figuring out that having an old system being replaced, just asking for flexibility within Linux MCE.
I do believe that every system, and i mean EVERY system can be adapted in any existing network. Those questions i asked came after three days searching without luck.
So do not be so short, if your world exists around this system, and it is the first in your home, i agree. Build then everything around it.
But there must be another way and i almost got there by myself, almost. So i really do not want to hear that i should change every device, webservers, NAS, TS's, file servers, mailservers, routing configuration, firewall and all loose devices to your option?
That is short minded and absolutely not the thoughts of a person who is in Linux.
As this is my first big attempt making such device working, i keep on going. Because i'm a system- and networkcontroller for many many years and not intended to give up so easily. Thank you for attempting me to throw of this project, you failed.
Anne
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: tschak909 on March 18, 2011, 03:15:14 pm
ALSO understand, that the people we have the most trouble with, are people like you: Network guys, who know enough to be paranoid, but don't know enough to actually contribute back. You think i'm being mean; I'm just dispensing cold hard truth here.

My responses come from years of trying to help people like you in good faith, only for them to just wind up doing what they want to anyway, bitching about it in the process, and wasting hundreds of hours of my time, and everyone else's.

The amount of time you'll spend to break the system into your way of thinking, will not be compensated in any other form, and since you're probably not going to contribute the extensive, custom, non-replicable patches back to us, what incentive is it to us to help you, when it won't help everyone else?

-Thom
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Randall on March 18, 2011, 10:31:04 pm
whats keeping you from having two separate networks for the time being...one to familiarize and test lmce and the other one for your everyday use. Once you figured lmce out for yourself, you can always make the switch. In the end, you have to find out for yourself, if lmce is for you or not.

That's what I'm doing. As a new migrant to LMCE, I have to say it isn't easy to drop everything in a previously working setup and switch cold-turkey. It would be easier if LMCE were a full, turn-key solution but the reality is that it is a complicated system with a few quirks. For me, my day-job requires that keep my VPN, mail server, web server and number-crunching machine operating. So, my dcerouter sits behind all of this and controls a separate dhcp network for 'home' devices. I've not run into any real trouble with this approach but I'm going to need to splurge on a decent gigabit switch and build a PoE injector in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne on March 19, 2011, 09:17:18 am
Ah well, Thom, if you are so right, why does it feel wrong then? If i'm a bull headed paranoid network guy who does not want to abide to the system rules and wants to implement just a simple media device in an existing network and sure of that the system 'should' be flexible to adjust to it, then what are you? developer of a system that says: I AM GOD, YOU ARE JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT CONTRIBUTE.  something like that, so is how i feel your comment. I know you guys did a fantastic job, but is my plea not worth thinking over? making it more flexible all the time? The whole world is connected, it all works fine, let not your system becom a second internet at home and be implementable.
I don't know if i go on if i stumble upon your suggestions or rather wishes, and yes, i am not a contributer so the best way to say to you all goodbye and never meet again?
So be it!


Instead of leaving, i'll convince more morons like me to use your system, and this forum, and then you can unknowingly that i might have send them, help them till your teeth bleed! How's that?  ;D

Come on, use your quality for the best. i wish you could see it my way, i'm not on here to ask stupid questions and make stupid decisions, not everybody has the ability to develope a nice piece of free software. One day someone comes by and asks to implement YOUR system into a complete finished piece of nice hardware, and then he offers you big bucks, would you say no to him?
What i try to say here is that instead of argueing, convince, explain why and why not, stop using your personal feelings in other man's mind and help where you can, that way you can pad yourself on the shoulder and a lot of people see the best of the best.
Thanks for trying to help Thom.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: maverick0815 on March 19, 2011, 04:00:59 pm
so, now that everyone has voiced their opinions, perhaps its better to get to the topic at hand?
Anne, if you got questions, ask them and you will get an answer, its up to you, if you want to take the advice or not.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: l3mce on March 20, 2011, 02:18:43 am
Ah well, Thom, if you are so right, why does it feel wrong then? If i'm a bull headed paranoid network guy who does not want to abide to the system rules and wants to implement just a simple media device in an existing network and sure of that the system 'should' be flexible to adjust to it, then what are you? developer of a system that says: I AM GOD, YOU ARE JUST A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT CONTRIBUTE.  something like that, so is how i feel your comment. I know you guys did a fantastic job, but is my plea not worth thinking over? making it more flexible all the time? The whole world is connected, it all works fine, let not your system becom a second internet at home and be implementable.
I don't know if i go on if i stumble upon your suggestions or rather wishes, and yes, i am not a contributer so the best way to say to you all goodbye and never meet again?
So be it!


Instead of leaving, i'll convince more morons like me to use your system, and this forum, and then you can unknowingly that i might have send them, help them till your teeth bleed! How's that?  ;D

Come on, use your quality for the best. i wish you could see it my way, i'm not on here to ask stupid questions and make stupid decisions, not everybody has the ability to develope a nice piece of free software. One day someone comes by and asks to implement YOUR system into a complete finished piece of nice hardware, and then he offers you big bucks, would you say no to him?
What i try to say here is that instead of argueing, convince, explain why and why not, stop using your personal feelings in other man's mind and help where you can, that way you can pad yourself on the shoulder and a lot of people see the best of the best.
Thanks for trying to help Thom.

Explain television to me. How it works.

Only I am an ant.


The system is complicated. Few really understand it. You are going to have to accept some principals on faith, or use something less comprehensive, I think is what Thom is saying. After enough years, you become abrasive to time vampires, in any station in life. That is not disparaging of you as a person. LMCE has to control the network, or it will not work, and all of the marvelous things that do work will be impacted by your unwillingness to let it be the router, because it seems like a server... it is just a very complicated router/messaging system. Routing those messages is important. Nobody wants you to be servile, but until you write something to be the way you want it, you have to accept it as it is.

For the record... I am an ant.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: Anne2 on March 20, 2011, 08:49:37 am
So, Anne died from de-motivation and had his account removed out of anger and asked himself:
'Well, if you think that i am going to rely everything at home on an almost 10 years old hardware based computer with an unstable or beta version to just control my watching a movie and so? you must be kidding. The maker should know better and maybe he did a "GREAT JOB" but what he forgot was that there are people working for years in the IT sector who CAN blindly build on reliable hardware. Not only that, it is implementable and thoroughly tested.' To the point? ok, what do i do now? throw it away? or throw it away? because my knowledge of Linux is at the bottom, i am a spoiled Netware/Microsoft administrator and really taking baby steps here, not to be beaten by some guru who thinks zip of me.
I like the idea, but there are a few major flaws in the system. (no, not gonna tell, find out or do an install of W2008 server and see how it's done)
I must now try to install Kubuntu, or do i take Ubuntu? that's step 1
Any replies on this question? well, how do i install LMCE on that??? I DON'T KNOW! It's not a distro and all, and i can't keep asking Q's like those here because you really think i'm a fool, but a complete distro of LMCE in the next version might push me towards a retry. For now, i lack the energy and will to figure it out myself, my family needs me too.
Sorry, i'll keep an eye on the next suitable RC. Hope this comes fast, because I LIKE IT !
Anne something.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: maverick0815 on March 20, 2011, 01:43:16 pm
The answer to your question is really simple : download the latest snapshot, burn the iso to a dvd, pop it in the drive of your would-be core and boot from it. In the boot menue select "Install LinuxMCE" ! More or less, its really simple as that, even a Microsoft Administrator as spoiled as you can do that....and before you get your hackles up, I am a Microsoft Administrator too.
But guess what, part of the reason, why this thread is becoming so "unfriendly" is simply because you come here with an attitude. Do you think the people here are just a bunch of lowlives, who just discovered what bits and bytes are? So, you're an IT-Pro and of course You know how it goes...so what. People here come from all sorts of businesses and in their lines, they are all Professionals too. What did you hope to accomplish, by making such a point? Everyone will just say:"Oh Gosh, I forgot...the force is strong in this one."

From the get go, people tried to help you...and yes then came Thom...but basically he is right.
By the way comparing Windows2008 to linuxmce is just as valid as comparing a kitchenknife to a swissarmy knife.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: l3mce on March 20, 2011, 02:06:06 pm
So if we build the system that you do not understand enough to install, the way you think it should be built, you will dane to try it for us?


Is that basically what you are offering?

I for one think we should consider it guys. It is a decent offer. It's only four million lines of code.


We should consider it is all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: bongowongo on March 20, 2011, 02:57:33 pm
All this nonsensical fighting, we all know I have the biggest bongo, so anne know your place, drink a beer and laugh a little. Let me give you a tip. To get honey it is better to use a bear than your bongo to get the honey out of a bee-hyve. Do I make any sense? No, just like this topic.
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: tschak909 on March 20, 2011, 02:59:07 pm
I really hate being like this, but I've seen far too many people like this, come and go, and I've gotten to where I can read these people exceptionally quickly.

I could go on and on about the decisions that have gone into this system, and why they need to be this way RIGHT NOW...

...but it would fall on deaf ears, replaced by obstinant argument. Which is OKAY; however, keep in mind, that the system is this way, because we took the time to make it this way. Is it perfect, no? Am I against making it work another way? hell no, but I've still got shit to do on my plate.

ALL THE DEVS DO.

So if you want it a specific way, guess what? You're gonna have to dig down and MAKE IT HAPPEN THAT WAY.

Sit on that for a bit.

-Thom
Title: Re: Trying and trying to make this work on Linux first time
Post by: MDH1966 on March 20, 2011, 03:19:12 pm
I usually don't chime in on these kinds of threads but I do enjoy reading them for the entertainment value.  But I feel compelled to add my $0.02.

I have built my LMCE network "inside" my Windows network.  I did this for two reasons, I sometimes use my computer for work and I need internet access to do that, and my wife really hates it when things don't "just work".  So, I left my network intact and built the LMCE as a test.  I had a few hurdles to overcome but I got it working.  LMCE is the DHCP for it's internal network.  It is only running one MD.  The only issue I have at this point is that my NAS is connected to my Windows network and not the LMCE internal network so LMCE doesn't see it. Actually, I do access it from the Kubuntu desktop.  I wanted to test the system for stability.  Once I got past the hurdles, of setting it up, it has been pretty stable.  I'm going to let it run for about a month or so and then I will put it is as my router for everything.  I may manually set the IP addresses on my Windows network (using 192.168.80.**) in the range that LMCE would put them anyway so if the LMCE box goes down for some reason, I can easily replace it with a Linksys router and not have to remap shared drives and print servers.  But that would be the only "hack".

So, to Anne, there may be some hurdles to overcome in the installtion process because of the particular hardware you are using. But this is a reliable enough system to run your entire network.  Set up a test system within your existing system and test, test, test.  Once you are convinced that it will do what you want to do, then let it do it's job.  I did it and I'm not a computer professional nor am I a Linux expert.