LinuxMCE Forums

General => Feature requests & roadmap => Topic started by: sambuca on December 04, 2010, 01:20:03 pm

Title: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: sambuca on December 04, 2010, 01:20:03 pm
I've fixed the "Queue instead of instant play" option for orbiters in the web-admin. This allows you to choose what action should be performed when pressing "Play" in the media browser. A router reload is necessary to switch options.

I'm contemplating other, more flexible options in addition to the web-admin option.
One suggestion is to add an option to the options screen (UI1, UI2 has menus in the bottom of the media browser to select options). Another is to add a "Queue" button to the media browser.

So, what way would you prefer?

best regards,
sambuca
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: darrenmason on December 06, 2010, 11:14:46 pm
Queue button to media browser (next to play) would be my preference....
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 06, 2010, 11:34:00 pm
arrrggghhh!

there is no way. guys. don't be stupid, and think like a UI designer for a moment...

If you select something, first time, it will send a playback. If you select something else and something is still playing successive times, it should queue it.

hmm, do you guys honestly not think this stuff through? or realize that :

(1) there isn't enough room for another button on some of the UI variations
(2) it will confuse the hell out of a normal user (not you, you guys ARE NOT NORMAL USERS!)

No.. No argument... what I am saying is sane behaviour. There is no sane reason to do it any other way.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: rperre on December 07, 2010, 01:08:34 am
no poll vote from me, but what TSCHAK said......................

So if something is already playing and i click on another media, it should queue, i would make this the "default action" and currently just leave it to being able to turn this off in the webadmin.

It would be nice to have certain options like these available through the media browser options, so it's not necessary to go to the webadmin.

Richard
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: sambuca on December 07, 2010, 08:32:20 am
Currently, if you check the "Queue instead of instant play", media will start playing if nothing is playing atm, but will queue up if anything is playing, so that part is taken care of.

I still think both buttons has a valid use case though..

br,
sambuca
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 01:53:12 pm
This is exactly the behaviour needed.

Why would you ever need a queue button?

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: wierdbeard65 on December 07, 2010, 03:22:29 pm
I'd like options.

One of the most successful media UIs around is the iPod/iPad/iPhone. In that, if you select a new media, it starts to play, replacing the existing media if necessary, it doesn't queue.

I'd like to be able to, if there is something already playing, be able to "on the fly" either replace the current content, or add it to a "play this next" type of queue. (Actually, I'm thinking more of the family when I say "I'd like"!!!)

Anyway, I can see that the UI could become cluttered, which would be bad, so why not a third default option, where if something is already playing, a pop-up asks you if you want to queue/play now (or a sub-menu, or whatever).

That way, folks who want it to queue automatically because that's what makes sense to them (Thom et el) get what they want. Folks who like Apple's approach can have everything just play immediately and folks like me (my family) who can't make up their mind what they want are also catered for :D
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 03:33:31 pm
No.

you'll wind up creating an additional level of UI that people go through every time to play stuff.

I will not implement it. I will not let anyone else implement it. It is a UI no-no. Go read some human interface guidelines, study some user interface designs,  and come back here when you have a more informed opinion.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: wierdbeard65 on December 07, 2010, 03:53:02 pm
Thom,

I respect your opinion. I accept you have a large amount of experience in this.

BUT

Apple more or less wrote the original Human Interface Guidelines and they chose the opposite approach. As far as I am concerned, it's about choice. I agree with not forcing people to go through an additional layer every time they play something.

What I am proposing is that there is a choice of 3 default actions (which you would select in WebAdmin).
1. Play it Now (Always) - the Apple approach.
2. If something is already playing, queue it (Always) - your approach.
3. If something is playing, ask.

I have to take offence to your comment "I will not let anyone else implement it". I always thought the philosophy of the project was "he who writes the code, writes the rules", so if someone else implements this, are you saying you will block its submission? This may be a minor issue in itself, but if that is, in fact, what you are saying it represents a very serious shift in the project philosophy. That would deserve, I would respectfully suggest, an open discussion of its own.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 04:04:40 pm
I am trying very hard to make the most of trying to fix serious issues with our UI left over from Pluto.

I can't do that, if every programmer goes his own way and does the UI "as he sees fit."

Sorry fellas, adding options is not always the right course.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 04:09:53 pm
Also.. Look at Apple's choice within the construct of the UI structure they used.

They can do this precisely because playlist creation is done entirely within iTunes, with the exception of the on-the-go playlist, and therefore it is safe to assume that you are NOT creating a playlist on the iPod/iPad/etc.

We, however, have to fold that functionality in with playback on our orbiter, it creates a point of contention.

Trust me, Paul. I've spent years doing UI work. And have spent a lot of time thinking these issues through. Until we can completely overhaul the media browser, this will provide the effect that most users will want.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: wierdbeard65 on December 07, 2010, 04:35:50 pm
Thom,

Good points, well made. Certainly there is no intent by me to make more work for you (or anyone else!). Sambuca threw a suggestion out there which, I assume, he was planning on implementing. I was trying to suggest a third "compromise" way to keep everyone happy.

Trust me, having seen the way my wife, in particular, interacts with media (especially music) the queue is most definitely the wrong answer for her (and an awful lot of other people I know!!) Often, she listens to a track half way through (or thereabouts) and then selects something new. The kids are even worse! Their boredom thresholds are so low that I honestly don't know why modern artists even bother writing tracks that last longer than 30 seconds! (Gone are the days of such wonders of Hey Jude and Bohemian Rhapsody being popular with the "yoof" :'()

Personally, however, I think that this is all candy. Rather than mucking around with the detail of the UI, I think it is MUCH more important to get a released, stable system even at the expense of functionality. I know it's difficult, but if there's going to be any form of dictatorial refusal to add stuff to the system or allow edits, it should be pursuant to a feature freeze pending getting what's there working reliably. I understand why 810 has taken so long and have seen comment from, amongst others, yourself that once 810 is released, the tie to a particular Kubuntu version should be weakened, making future upgrades easier. More recent comments about 1004 seem to contradict this.

Just my 10 cents.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: phenigma on December 07, 2010, 04:52:48 pm
I have to take offence to your comment "I will not let anyone else implement it". I always thought the philosophy of the project was "he who writes the code, writes the rules", so if someone else implements this, are you saying you will block its submission? This may be a minor issue in itself, but if that is, in fact, what you are saying it represents a very serious shift in the project philosophy. That would deserve, I would respectfully suggest, an open discussion of its own.

Another indication of the "Do as I say, not as I do" attitude.  Thom, last I checked, you do not 'own' this system.  No wonder people don't want to step up to help with development work...  The attitude here has to change!

J.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 05:09:07 pm
hmm.
Given the behaviour of the MediaBrowser class at this point, what I have outlined is the most viable option.

If we want something else, the entire Media Browsing/Selection paradigm will need to be changed.

This is why I've asked people to make UI toys for an eventual replacement of Orbiter (the Clutter thread)

And yes, I do feel as if I have a right to have the final say on this issue, seeing as:

(1) I have put more hours into Orbiter, and the Media PlugIn, than all of you put together.
(2) I have almost two decades of UI experience.
(3) I have taken it upon myself, to ensure that the UI experience will eventually be completely consistent across EACH AND EVERY TARGET that Orbiter supports.

Have any of you stepped up to do this?

And no, don't whine and say, "But, you're bullying us!!" ...

Those of you who have actually put code into this system, and have worked with those of us who do the development work KNOW that we value actual work above any and all talk and discussion. _VERY RARELY_ have I explicitly put my own foot down in terms of how things should work. I can count them on my fingers,

and before you say, "But you should never do this!! It's against open source development!"

no, it's not.

Have any of you done Linux Kernel development?

Linus has final word on _EVERYTHING_ that goes into the main line. PERIOD. End of story. He earned this right with the sheer amount of work he has put into the kernel.

If you can thoroughly prove the point that having divergent queueing behaviour would be better than what I am saying should be done, then, I will go along with it.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: posde on December 07, 2010, 05:12:04 pm
Thom, Paul, J.

nobody owns the system.

Please do not water down this thread with uncalled stuff regarding who can and who can not do stuff to the system.

This system is open. People provide patches and we try to include them. Sometimes we argue about them. That's fine. In the end, decisions are made. Case closed. If you want start a flame war, please open a new thread.

If more stuff like this is being posted on this thread, the poster will receive a 24 hour ban to cool down.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: tschak909 on December 07, 2010, 05:13:56 pm
ok.

sorry.

-Thom
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: wierdbeard65 on December 07, 2010, 05:22:37 pm
Pos, Thom, J (and everyone else!)

Firstly, I also don't want a flame war. My original posting was on-topic and meant to be constructive and in no way do I want to offend anyone! I apologise that my latter comment has taken the thread on a different tack and, like I said, if that needs further discussion, then a new thread is needed.

Thom, your work here is legendary and much appreciated by everyone. No one is perfect, though, and proper discussion is both healthy and valuable.

J, whilst I sympathise to a certain extent with your viewpoint, you come across as very aggressive! Please don't use my comments in order to promote your stance in this way, or to instigate a flame war!

Pos, Is this a new direction for Forum Admin? I have seen other threads become far more off-topic and out of line  (and get way with it). I would welcome stricter moderation as long as it isn't at the expense of free-speech! If that earns me a ban, well, so be it.

Sambuca, your suggestion seems to have provoked some debate. If you have some spare dev capacity, I think the consensus is that there are more productive areas that this could be utilized ;)
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: sambuca on December 07, 2010, 07:56:15 pm
Ok, it seems best to leave this as is for now. As I've already said, the "Queue instead of instant play" is fixed, so you can select the default behavior on a per orbiter basis.

My only motivation for the initial question was to improve a part where I know there have been requests in the past. I can't recall if Thom or anyone was involved in the discussion back then, but it was not my intention to challenge anyone if this has been put down before. Thom is the GUI expert so I have put myself to rest with what we have now, for the time being.

Best regards,
sambuca
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: wierdbeard65 on December 08, 2010, 03:20:09 pm
I think it would be a good idea to have a "report" option on comment pages so we dont have to pm a moderator everytime someone added a stupid comment or an inappropriate comment
Err, so the link "report to moderator" doesn't work for you? :o
And also an "edit" and "delete" option tooonly for your own comments, dont know how many times i have made a mistake writing a comment and there is nothing you can do about it.
At the end of your posts is an icon that looks like a notepad and pen. It lets you edit your posts. Then there's the icon that says "Remove".....

Sorry, I don't want this to seem inappropriate (and sorry, Pos that it's waaaay off the OP's topic) but honestly, Mak, averything you suggest is already there  ::)
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: buckle on December 09, 2010, 10:02:08 pm
...the "Queue instead of instant play" is fixed...

I just wanted to say thanks to Sambuca for fixing this bug.   :-* 

I hadn't been consistently using the system enough, until very recently, to realize that it was a bug and not user error. 

For what it's worth, I voted to keep it as is.  I think that I will always prefer to queue instead of play.  However, an interesting twist to that option would be to have a user-specific override.  I don't know how feasible that is, as I have not looked at the code involved.  I'm merely making an observation.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: Techstyle on December 11, 2010, 07:28:26 am
Yes, thanks Sambuca for fixing this.  This was a pet hate of mine since I started using the system.

And I agree with Thom, just the one play/queue button for me - Add to the queue, if the queue is empty play it!
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: gtsupport on February 15, 2011, 01:36:52 pm
Very appropriate thread, as I was trying to get the queue instead of play feature to work last night.  I have checked the box for all my orbiters to queue instead of play, but the functionality isn't implemented.  I have rebooted the core, regened the orbiters (all) but it still plays instantly the song I add.

Do I have to do an apt-get update for this feature to be fixed?  I'm still on snapshot 23388, and I see there are loads of newer ones now.
Title: Re: Queue and play options in media browser
Post by: posde on February 15, 2011, 02:02:45 pm
At the very least you should apt-get upgrade after apt-get update. and do a sqlCVS update from the web admin, first on the designer repo, followed by the dce repo. After all that and a quick reload (or better a reboot, if you haven't done an upgrade recently), you should full regen the orbiter.