LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: wierdbeard65 on May 01, 2010, 10:29:44 am

Title: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 01, 2010, 10:29:44 am
Folks,

Following a (sometimes heated) discussion (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=10034.0 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=10034.0)) I have created a version matrix template.

I intend to start adding the following to the top of every wiki page:

Code: [Select]
{{versioninfo}}This will create a "blank" versiontable at the top of the page stating that the status of this page with regard to both 710 and 810 is unknown.

Can I ask you to do three things, please?

Code: [Select]
{{versioninfo|810Status=Working|810UpdatedDate=1st May 2010|810UpdatedBy=Wierdbeard65}}

The parameters are:


Obviously, when the next version is on the horizon, we can update the template as required :)

Please post below with your suggestions for "official" statuses.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 01, 2010, 10:54:55 am
Example
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/ShuttleX50V2

But will it be searchable if I put it shuttle and 0810 into the search of wiki. If I do now I see that it hits the catagory 0810.
If I take it out, maybe not?
So it should be the matrix and the 0810 catagory?
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: golgoj4 on May 01, 2010, 04:20:47 pm
Example
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/ShuttleX50V2

But will it be searchable if I put it shuttle and 0810 into the search of wiki. If I do now I see that it hits the catagory 0810.
If I take it out, maybe not?
So it should be the matrix and the 0810 catagory?


enough with the 0810 category already. i dont see how searching for 'ShuttleX50V2 0810' is anymore efficient than 'ShuttleX50V2'. Why are you so set on adding a superfluous category when its not exactly difficult to find things now? Or is the goal to make a hardware list compatible with 0810?

What weirdbeard is proposing makes sense. Add the version matrix and bam, no unnecessary complexity or extra categories.

Guess what im saying is that the the version info should be more than enough as opposed to creating a category which is going to be useless at some point.

golgoj4

Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 01, 2010, 05:08:10 pm
That is how you learn, by asking.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: Zaerc on May 01, 2010, 09:59:38 pm
Example
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/ShuttleX50V2

But will it be searchable if I put it shuttle and 0810 into the search of wiki. If I do now I see that it hits the catagory 0810.
If I take it out, maybe not?
So it should be the matrix and the 0810 catagory?


enough with the 0810 category already. i dont see how searching for 'ShuttleX50V2 0810' is anymore efficient than 'ShuttleX50V2'. Why are you so set on adding a superfluous category when its not exactly difficult to find things now? Or is the goal to make a hardware list compatible with 0810?

What weirdbeard is proposing makes sense. Add the version matrix and bam, no unnecessary complexity or extra categories.

Guess what im saying is that the the version info should be more than enough as opposed to creating a category which is going to be useless at some point.

golgoj4



Clearly, some people around here actually need to get stepped on their toes to get through to them.  And when they start crying about their feelings getting hurt, it's usually a sign that the message finally got across.

That is how you learn, by asking.

Next time, try to "learn" without other people having to clean up after you...
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 01, 2010, 10:54:11 pm
EDIT
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: Zaerc on May 02, 2010, 09:14:05 pm
I am sorry Zaerc, go fuck.
This is bullshit.
Did the message come across?
That's funny. 
Obviously the message got across since you're crying about it.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 02, 2010, 09:58:42 pm
EDIT
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: golgoj4 on May 03, 2010, 03:37:15 am
Nothing constructive is being said anymore. just effing drop it.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 03, 2010, 08:44:13 am
Now I'm getting VERY anoyed!

Firstly, I have alerted one of the Forum Admins to the way this thread has degenerated. IMHO is is unacceptable and unneccessary. Yes, we all have (often strong) opinions, however there is simply NO EXCUSE for the offensive and personal comments being posted.

Despite this, I have been working my way through the wiki (as some of you may have noticed) adding the VersionInfo template to the pages. When I made it to Z-Wave, I found some categories created called, amongst others "Works without Caveats in 810" etc. (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810 (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810)). These seem to be partially populated already.

Now, the discussion about whether this should be a page-by-page version grid, or a category has already been had (and caused most of the mud-slinging), but it seems to me that there is a lot of duplication of effort going on here and there aren't enough people involved in the project to be able to waste time this way.

SOMEONE was well aware of the existence of these categories already, yet they are not mentioned anywhere either in this thread, or the one proposing the setting up of similar categories. This kind of duplication is inevitable when we have a culture of "stop talking about it and just DO it" on the forums. Before people invest time, an (albeit short) discussion would prevent a LOT of wasted time and effort.

FWIW, having thought carefully about it, I think Categories are the wrong way to go. They are not granular enough (unless you have dozens) nor are they obvious (in your face) enough to be reliably added.

I will continue to add the version table to pages (unless someone objects strongly) and would ask that anyone who feels like I do pitches in as well. Also, dear Admins, please can you remove the rather offensive messages in this thread (Starting with Zaerc's on May 1st and finishing with Bongowongo's on the 2nd) and then make this topic sticky?
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: Kezza on May 03, 2010, 09:28:10 am
Now I'm getting VERY anoyed!

Firstly, I have alerted one of the Forum Admins to the way this thread has degenerated. IMHO is is unacceptable and unneccessary. Yes, we all have (often strong) opinions, however there is simply NO EXCUSE for the offensive and personal comments being posted.

Despite this, I have been working my way through the wiki (as some of you may have noticed) adding the VersionInfo template to the pages. When I made it to Z-Wave, I found some categories created called, amongst others "Works without Caveats in 810" etc. (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810 (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810)). These seem to be partially populated already.

Now, the discussion about whether this should be a page-by-page version grid, or a category has already been had (and caused most of the mud-slinging), but it seems to me that there is a lot of duplication of effort going on here and there aren't enough people involved in the project to be able to waste time this way.

SOMEONE was well aware of the existence of these categories already, yet they are not mentioned anywhere either in this thread, or the one proposing the setting up of similar categories. This kind of duplication is inevitable when we have a culture of "stop talking about it and just DO it" on the forums. Before people invest time, an (albeit short) discussion would prevent a LOT of wasted time and effort.

FWIW, having thought carefully about it, I think Categories are the wrong way to go. They are not granular enough (unless you have dozens) nor are they obvious (in your face) enough to be reliably added.

I will continue to add the version table to pages (unless someone objects strongly) and would ask that anyone who feels like I do pitches in as well. Also, dear Admins, please can you remove the rather offensive messages in this thread (Starting with Zaerc's on May 1st and finishing with Bongowongo's on the 2nd) and then make this topic sticky?


I think this is a great idea.

I have updated all in the laptop category. Only issue I found when went to update the USB-UIRT to working I did not know what code to insert to update the version table other than refering back to this post. Does the wiki allow for commenting or some way of easily displaying example code that we could past when setting up?
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: totallymaxed on May 03, 2010, 11:29:07 am
Now I'm getting VERY anoyed!

Firstly, I have alerted one of the Forum Admins to the way this thread has degenerated. IMHO is is unacceptable and unneccessary. Yes, we all have (often strong) opinions, however there is simply NO EXCUSE for the offensive and personal comments being posted.

Despite this, I have been working my way through the wiki (as some of you may have noticed) adding the VersionInfo template to the pages. When I made it to Z-Wave, I found some categories created called, amongst others "Works without Caveats in 810" etc. (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810 (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Category:Works_without_caveats_on_0810)). These seem to be partially populated already.

Now, the discussion about whether this should be a page-by-page version grid, or a category has already been had (and caused most of the mud-slinging), but it seems to me that there is a lot of duplication of effort going on here and there aren't enough people involved in the project to be able to waste time this way.

SOMEONE was well aware of the existence of these categories already, yet they are not mentioned anywhere either in this thread, or the one proposing the setting up of similar categories. This kind of duplication is inevitable when we have a culture of "stop talking about it and just DO it" on the forums. Before people invest time, an (albeit short) discussion would prevent a LOT of wasted time and effort.

FWIW, having thought carefully about it, I think Categories are the wrong way to go. They are not granular enough (unless you have dozens) nor are they obvious (in your face) enough to be reliably added.

I will continue to add the version table to pages (unless someone objects strongly) and would ask that anyone who feels like I do pitches in as well. Also, dear Admins, please can you remove the rather offensive messages in this thread (Starting with Zaerc's on May 1st and finishing with Bongowongo's on the 2nd) and then make this topic sticky?


I think this is a great idea.

I have updated all in the laptop category. Only issue I found when went to update the USB-UIRT to working I did not know what code to insert to update the version table other than refering back to this post. Does the wiki allow for commenting or some way of easily displaying example code that we could past when setting up?

Agreed... the versioninfo template itself needs a Wiki entry...at the risk of being infinitely recursive of course ;-)

I applaud what wierdbeard65 is doing 100%...I'm not sure if I agree with using a template for this purpose...but since I cant think of a better proposal and wierdbeard65 has committed his time/effort I have started updating pages I monitor with updated versioinfo data.

All the best


Andrew
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 03, 2010, 11:46:21 am
Agreed... the versioninfo template itself needs a Wiki entry...at the risk of being infinitely recursive of course ;-)

I applaud what wierdbeard65 is doing 100%...I'm not sure if I agree with using a template for this purpose...but since I cant think of a better proposal and wierdbeard65 has committed his time/effort I have started updating pages I monitor with updated versioinfo data.
I'll put a wiki entry in for this then and thanks for the support! :) Actually, I was also thinking of some style guidelines for the wiki as well, maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer it if the pages were consistent ;) I've looked at a lot of pages in quick succession and some consistency would be good! I'm gonna start a new thread to discuss this....

Anyway, I thought about the three options long and hard before I started. As I see it, the template works best since it means that when the next version comes out (be that 910, 1004 or whatever) we can simply add a row to the table in the template and then the "Unknown" status will automagically appear for all pages for the new version. We then just wait for the people with "the knowledge" to fill in the detail ;D

Anyway, Andrew, I know I'm asking a lot and that you and your team already devote a lot of time and effort to this site, but I'm fairly sure that you would have the most detailed knowledge to "fill in the blanks" on a lot of the pages....
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 03, 2010, 01:23:11 pm
I edited my posts, not my opinion.
You are on the good path Weirdbeard65
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 03, 2010, 03:40:06 pm
I edited my posts, not my opinion.
You are on the good path Weirdbeard65
Thanks, BW.

You know it makes sens ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: jimbodude on May 03, 2010, 11:06:58 pm
I'll put a wiki entry in for this then and thanks for the support! :) Actually, I was also thinking of some style guidelines for the wiki as well, maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer it if the pages were consistent ;) I've looked at a lot of pages in quick succession and some consistency would be good! I'm gonna start a new thread to discuss this....

Yes, the template is the way to go, without a doubt.  Even then - if for some reason we decide to make a category (which we should NOT) it could be programatically applied via the template.

Eventually, we should have a more formal hardware compatibility database - there have been at least a couple unsuccessful attempts to make such a thing, but nothing useful came from those, so the wiki will have to do for now.

If you can find a way to normalize the input to the template - for instance, only allow "working", not "it works", "good", "crappy device", etc - that would be excellent.  I'd suggest the following categories:
- working plug-and-play (for PnP devices)
- works with minimal effort (for devices that have templates, but are not PnP)
- works with significant effort (for devices that need additional software to be manually installed)
- not working


I applaud your efforts and dedication.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: purps on May 04, 2010, 04:08:01 pm
Sorry if I'm being simple, but how do I edit the matrix?

I click "edit" on the wiki page in question, but don't see anything relating to the matrix at the top.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 04, 2010, 05:45:04 pm
Purps,

Have a look at the opening post in this thread. An example of a "filled in" matrix is there, together with all the parameters.

Long story short, it's a template with "runtime" substitition parameteres / variables.

If it still doesn't make sense, post back with what you want to put and I'll explain how to put it there :D
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: jimbodude on May 04, 2010, 08:44:41 pm
It would be great if there were a wiki page describing the use of the matrix template.  It could have links to the mediawiki documentation on templates for those not familiar with the syntax or interested in learning.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 05, 2010, 10:16:44 am
Ok,

I've started a new category (which isn't fleshed out enough yet to put a link to from the main page ;) to start documenting Wiki Editing Style Guides. I have created one article in the category which explains (I hope!) how to use the versioninfo template.

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/UseageTemplateVersionInfo (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/UseageTemplateVersionInfo)

I have also modified the template so that at the bottom is a link to the useage information page.

I hope this helps anyone wanting to contribute to this mini-project :)
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: jimbodude on May 05, 2010, 04:17:19 pm
I like it, thanks.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: golgoj4 on May 05, 2010, 06:43:40 pm
Yes thank you for getting this done :)

-golgoj4
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 11, 2010, 07:51:15 pm
OK, I think most of the hardware pages have now been done. Thank you to everyone who as helped out!

I have taken the liberty of also going through the categories in "compatibility" and updated the versioninfo as appropriate. (For example, "Confirmed working without caveats in 810" etc.

I would appreciate it if people could carry on adding the template to any pages they stumble acorss that don't have it!

Unless anyone objects, I'm going to move on to the Documentation and Tutorials categories.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: golgoj4 on May 12, 2010, 01:41:09 am
OK, I think most of the hardware pages have now been done. Thank you to everyone who as helped out!

I have taken the liberty of also going through the categories in "compatibility" and updated the versioninfo as appropriate. (For example, "Confirmed working without caveats in 810" etc.

I would appreciate it if people could carry on adding the template to any pages they stumble acorss that don't have it!

Unless anyone objects, I'm going to move on to the Documentation and Tutorials categories.


Thank you very much. Been noticing it popping up more and more across the wiki. Good work.

-golgoj4
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: totallymaxed on May 12, 2010, 01:44:44 am
Anyway, Andrew, I know I'm asking a lot and that you and your team already devote a lot of time and effort to this site, but I'm fairly sure that you would have the most detailed knowledge to "fill in the blanks" on a lot of the pages....

If I visit a page and I know its status then I will update it for sure...but as to having the most 'detailed' knowledge... ;-)

Andrew
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 12, 2010, 10:50:29 am
As we know now what path we are taking, let's opt for a sticky to explain how this works, why this is important etc. So that the more lurkish forum users are confronted with it every day.
This only works if everybody knows the system and applies it.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 12, 2010, 12:27:52 pm
I agree, and asked in the first posting for that to happen.

Hey, Admins! How about it?
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 12, 2010, 12:37:19 pm
Well Zaerc seems to be an admin......... ;D
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 12, 2010, 12:52:16 pm
Ummmm, yeeesssss. But so are 3 others :D
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 13, 2010, 03:14:23 pm
If we make a sticky, could we also make a preferred comment.

Like

Works with little programming
Works out of the box / pnp
Doesn't work
Works, but not fully
etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: wierdbeard65 on May 13, 2010, 07:18:48 pm
Or perhaps we could update the Useage Information page?
Title: Re: Wiki Update
Post by: bongowongo on May 15, 2010, 03:20:37 pm
Ok, it is a sticky now.
Maybe you can revert to this page
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Short_Howto_on_Wiki

And maybe suggest some standard status names.