Author Topic: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues (Solved Slightly)  (Read 3845 times)

rodercot

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Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues (Solved Slightly)
« on: August 07, 2008, 03:12:19 pm »
 Hey guys,

 Now that I have the bugs out. I want to move forward. I have my Denon AVR-988 and I have all the RS-232 commands ready as well as the inputs, outputs and modes documented and then I have my DISH 6000 ready to setup with Myth and the Usbirt. I think I need to do the TV thing quick as the Better half is sick of watching ripped TV re-runs. LOL.

 Anyhow - my questions are should I get the Denon up and running first before the STB so the pipes will be in place for input and output for the rcvr, the PVR-150 is already installed and I have the cable plugged into it. Although I cannot see it in the A/V devices for the MD in the living room. I assumed this was because I did not have the STB installed nor the rcvr.

 I plan on re-using the Denon AVC1 Template in the system already of which I need to change input and modes as the AVR-988 has more or newer modes as well as another channel for zone 3 pre-outs.

 Any advice on the template setup would help. I have read the wiki but still a little gun-shy when I see that red writing in the Webadmin telling me that anything I change will affect all using this device.

 Regards,

 Dave

 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 12:16:29 pm by rodercot »

jondecker76

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2008, 06:23:37 pm »
I wouldn't modify any of the standard templates in the web admin. Create a new one, but just refer to the other one as a basis for creating your own.

One reason for this is that you may wish to have your changes accepted into the SqlCVS system, but if you did it by modifying an existing template, if it were to be accepted (which it wouldn't be if it had a chance of modifying others good working devices) it would change that master device template, and probably upset a lot of people down the line. Where as if you mad a new template, you could get it into SqlCVS, and then a lot of people could benifit from your new template.

So short story is, in your local install it wouldn't hurt anything if you modified that device template (unless you had devices using that specific device template) - but for the above reasons it isn't a good idea.

Also, I prefer to create all of my device templates before running the setup wizard so that I can set everything up at once.

If you plan on using the setup wizard to set things up for you (connect the pipes etc...), when you create a new device template, on one of the first screens is a tick box "Create Device" that is ticked by default. I recommend unticking it. If it is left ticked, it will add a device automatically from the template you create, but won't set it up. While it doesn't hurt, it may cause some confusion later when you run  the setup wizard and notice it thinks you already installed that device. Or if down the line you wonder why you have multiples of the same device. So in short - if you are going to set it up manually, its ok to leave the Create Device tick checked, but if you plan on using the setup wizard, i recommend unchecking it.

One more tip - the device template you create MUST be in the A/V subcategories in order to be accessible from the setup wizard (it is hard coded). For your Dennon, put it in A/V->Amps/Tuners/Receivers (I think thats what its called, or similar... I'm at work right now). Otherwize, you won't find it in the list in the setup wizard...

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2008, 11:26:32 pm »
That went great!!!. I started to make the Denon Template. Added the inputs added the modes - I noticed that a few of the modes for the new HD audio are not listed and i asked in the chat room about adding them in but was advised against it so i did not. The I chose the supplied Denon AVR/AVC protocol. It attached it to the template and then clicked on one of the codes down the list it searched a bit and came back with a screen with none of the codes for anything implemented. Now if I look up the Denon - Device Templates - Amps tuners etc.. There are two templates for a 988 plus AM - OTA Twice, FM OTA -TWICE etc...

 did I screw that up. Not sure how to get back from this now. I cannot get the codes from the database to reattach to the template and I am not sure why all my inputs are being added outside of the AVR-988.

 Regards,

 Dave

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 12:01:58 pm »
Hey Guys,

 Well it looks to me like I screwed up the existing AVR/AVC protocol. I have added all the rs232 strings back into the AVR-988 (rs-232) template.  In looking at the codes for the Denon from the book there are a ton of codes for items not in the list supplied. I also notice in the Yamaha RX template there are additional child devices added for the OTA-Radio as well as extra zones.

 I would like to work with someone to complete this thing properly and add or get it fully supported. I am also not sure about the control or addition of controls after the fact, for instance when I select tuner from the inputs then there are additional commands for band, presets, direct tuning etc.. as well this receiver supports Ipod Input with cursor, enter, rename etc as well as XM Radio etc..

 I am available all day today if someone has the time pm me maybe we can conference or chat.

 Regards,

 Dave

jondecker76

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2008, 01:12:33 pm »
While I'm not familiar with your exact model of receiver, or its inputs - depending on the situation, it is possible for "Extra" device templates to be created. This is determined by the inputs page when creating the original device template. When you tell LMCE about the inputs, there are drop-boxes where you can specify a certain media type (this is not used in most cases). For example, if you create a TV template, you may have inputs:
AV1
AV2
HDMI1
HDMI2
Antenna

In the above case, you may want to assign a media type of LiveTV for the Antenna input as it physically is capable of generating its own media(and no media type for the rest of the inputs as they don't really provide a media type themselves, they just inport a media type from another device if that makes sense). In this case, you would end up with an "extra" device template to control the Antenna port. While it may not immediatly make sense as to why it is set up this way, consider the following:
You created your TV template (with a LiveTV Antenna input). You connect an antenna to the antenna input, and a DVD player to AV1.(lets also assume you have a device template for the dvd player)
When you are watching a dvd through the dvd player, LMCE switches to the AV1 input, and now any time you use CHannel up/down on an IR remote, it skips chapters on your dvd. Now use LMCE to switch to the LiveTV part of your tv. Now the Channel up/down will change channels on the tv tuner.
So in short, things are done this way so LMCE knows what device to send commands to, and which commands to send (in the above example AV1 does not have its own media type, so LMCE follows the pipe to the next device -dvd player-, which has a media type. Antenna Does have a media type, so there is no pipe to follow and this is the actaul device to control)

Its a little complicated to understand at first, but once you get it the entire idea behind pipes etc will all make a lot of sense.

So if you have a few different ports that do provide its own media type, I would say your extra device templates are normal in your case.

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2008, 01:41:22 pm »
Hi Jon,

 I sort of get all that. I have read and reread the wiki for this several times. I guess what I am saying is this.

 if you go into your system and webadmin - device templates and look under Denon - Av/receivers etc... and apply filter you will now see

 2 Am OTAradios 2 FM OTA radios 2 XM  Satellite Radios etc... I think this maybe because I added a template twice somehow.
 
 BUT if I look at the Yamaha Template At the bottom of the first page the Extra devices you speak off are added inside the Yamaha RX-x000 template I guess as an embedded or child to that parent device with some extra commands for each of the child devices. I cannot find any info on adding those or to the parent A/V device.

 I will try to explain this better. I setup my inputs all is fine there - DVD, HDP, TUNER etc...

 NOW if from the Media Scenario page for the receiver (not created yet) If I selected tuner as my source. Well in the Denon Command list book there are extra RS-232 commands for changing bands, preset up and down, preset scrolling A1-E1 and direct access to a channel.

 Then for the IPOD input there are many commands for cursor up, down, etc then folder selections, track selection, etc...

 then for XM you have all the standard XM Radio control commands within that XM input as well.

 So I guess I am asking Now that inputs for Tuner, XM, Ipod etc where do I put the commands for the childs control inside that specific input on the parent - So like this

 Denon AVR-988 - Tuner INput Selection - Then how do we control Band, AM Direct, FM Direct, Preset Up, Preset Dwn, Scroll Preset etc.

 Then of course there is the zone 2 and three setups which have all of the above options again listed with a separate string

 IE Main Zone Input DVD = SIDVD\r

 Zone2 Input DVD  Z2 SIDVD\r etc...

 On top of all this

 There are direct mode inputs for

 DTS-HD, DD+, DD TrueHD, Multi-Channel in direct, Multi-Channel in pure direct, Multi-channel in 7.1 etc... none of these are in the supplied (stock) list in the system.

 I would assume that if I am setting this up I only want to do it once and not have to edit the template over and over again and these new features will need to be added at some point.
 
 If I had an HD-DVD player playing an HD-DVD with a DTS-HDMaster track but it was defaulting to DTS Standard I would then have no way to change this inside LMCE is the way I am think (Is this not correct?)

 This is also going to be an issue with my satellite rcvr I am sure.
 
 I have multiple a/v outputs on that unit (VU 6000HD) and there is a switch turning (toggle_ on/off) HD (turns on cmpt@1080I) SD (std def at 480i) through regular s-vid or composite. I have s-video feeding the pvr-150 in the hybrid and then I have the cmpt running to the rcvr and it is output (upconverts) on the HDMI from the rcvr to input 5 on the TV at 1080p. How do I get all this into a command string.  I need to switch the STB to HD (for live TV from STB) to pass the cmpt signal to the rcvr when I want to watch HD on the TV and then switch back to SD when I want to use MYTH through the pvr-150 in the core. All this needs to be done via I/R as well.

 Dave

jondecker76

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2008, 03:29:56 pm »
I checked out the Yamaha templates, and there is a difference.. If you look at the Inputs for the Yamaha, none are selected as a separate Media type.
Basically you have 2 choices - treat the tuners as separate devices (by assigning a media type to the inputs), or don't select a media type, and use the related to fields as the Yamaha does.

I don't have a great deal of experience in this area, so I couldn't say for sure which one would be the best for your situation. Maybe spending sometime going through a bunch of other receiver templates would be helpful.. For each one, click on A/V properties, then at the top of the properties page, follow the Change/Explain link for the inputs and see how many emply each of the methods by seeing if they assigned media types to certain inputs.

I'd like to hear how you make out though, as I will be in the same boat at some time making a decision on the best way to add my receiver (which I currently don't use)

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2008, 08:40:05 pm »
Hi Jon,

 Well there is not documentation in the wiki or the users manual that would explain controlling child devices inside a parent device it also seems that from reading this wiki on the Marantz, we do not have the media screens for the associated children of an A/V device. That sort of leaves me at a brick wall.  I do have the receiver setup as a template but currently I would take it as unuseable due to the fact that we cannot use the internals tuners on the device as they are but need to modify (I guess) another Live TV screen.

 I hope I am mistaking this as whoever wrote that wiki also placed this on mantis but it seems the link is dead.

 http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Marantz_SR5600#.27TV_-_LiveTV.27_device_with_template_.231751_as_child_device.27

 See what you think of the comments.

 rgds,

 Dave

jondecker76

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2008, 10:01:00 pm »
why not try assigning media types for the inputs and having the tuners as separate devices? Just to try it out once, I assigned "Live TV" to the tuner on my TV and ended up with a separate device for it. Barring that, maybe give it a try with the TV remote screen with the related templates, i'm sure it would control most of what you need. Even better, fire up HADesigner and create a screen for it and use it. Thom has some great tutorials on it, and it really isn't all that hard to use (just a bit buggy)

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 10:08:26 pm »
 Yes I have done that and it in fact does create the separate devices under media one for the Tuner - OTA Radio  (no screen) and one for XMradio - Setellite Radio no screen. My problem is currently that the system keeps wanting to detect the Denon AVC-A1SRA instead of my AVR-988 (rs232) and if I assign it manually by removing the pnp script portion of my template nothing works it still tries to detect the AVC-A1SRA even with the AVR-988 already installed on that USB - Serial port. 

 Regards,

 Dave

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2008, 09:29:36 pm »
Well I am not sure what else to try here. I cannot get the system to detect the right receiver and if try to add it manually and the next reload or regen it detects the AVC-A1SA rcvr everytime. If I remove both and then say yes when it detects I get no option to change the rcvr type from the detected model. I have also tried to say yes then choose control control via IR and set the AVR-988 that way, but of course then none of the commands function as this device is of course RS232.

 Any ideas, actually I am not sure if the template is even setup correctly. I notice that if I try sending commands from the group the rcvr does not react to any of them, although when it is detected via the AVC-A1SA it does turn off and then on again while that software is being installed. but nothing works after that. No pwr commands or volume.

 In looking at other template I notice some ruby internal commands being used here and there and I am not sure if any of these need to be put in as well.

 rgds,

 Dave

 

jondecker76

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Re: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2008, 10:46:32 pm »
maybe you'll find some relief checking out /usr/pluto/pnp/20_DenonReceiver.sh

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2008, 11:46:39 am »
Hey Jon,

 Thanks for that heads up. I guess the Denon models do not use a Device ID Method, so in the 2nd part of the script (if it is a Denon Receiver) the script calls up device template 71 which is the AVC-A1SA, I changed that to my AVR-988 Device (template 1931) and it detected that and has not detected another device since.  The Yamaha script seems much more detail it actually seems to call up an SQL Query to try and find out which device you are using through Vendor_ID.

 Still none of my commands are working though.  I looked through other rcvr templates and I see internal ruby commands for most, even if basic. There is the private listing, Process Initialize, Process Child Commands etc... I am not sure if I need any of these nor am I sure what should be put in any of those boxes, even though in the wiki they state they are not needed for some devices.

 All the rcvr templates (rs-232) seem to have the process initialize with what looks like a small ruby snippet written in.

 Thanks for all your help with this.

 rgds,

 Dave

rodercot

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Re: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2008, 04:38:16 pm »
Hopefully someone can confirm this. In Reading some more wiki and forum posts. I am seeing all kinds of comments referring to ttxUSB(x) as your device.

 I am using a Radio Shack nexxtech usb-serial adaptor and when I look at devices in webadmin-devices-a/v equipment - It is on com port pci 0000+____2 etc of which there are three and then the actual com port which the tv is on.

 I have tried to talk to the rcvr via the laptop and a terminal program where the usb-serial port is emulating com4 but no data in or out is seen and the rcvr does nothing.

 What is confusing about this is when the rcvr is actually detected the pnp script fires off a power down command and then a power up plus mute off command and the rcvr responds.

 rgds,

 Dave

PeteK

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Re: Next Steps!! - Denon RS232 Rcvr Issues
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2008, 11:34:29 pm »
I submitted a mantis change for a bug in the Denon template.  The serial parameters don't match the format that the GSD plugin is looking for.  See http://mantis.linuxmce.org/view.php?id=4267

You should be able to do this on your local machine until the batch is approved.