Author Topic: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE  (Read 2476 times)

Farmboy

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Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« on: July 22, 2011, 01:59:35 am »
I have followed LinuxMCE since Plutohome, and have always been impressed by what is possible, but find myself wondering what the project is aiming to be.

Is the aim to build the 'best' of it's type? Probably is.
Is it to have the whole world use it? Probably won't happen.

It is always frustrating to me, how difficult Linux types make their projects for the average Joe to install and use. What's the point of making it difficult?

When Plutohome were active, there was a commercial incentive and it was easy to install and use. I didn't even know what Linux was installed underneath, you just burned the two CDs, rebooted and it just worked. Dianemo seems to have the same philosophy.

However, since LinuxMCE has taken the reins, it has got way more complicated, with apt-get this and apt-get that, parts of the wiki say upgrade the distribution and users say don't.

I only ever managed to get 7.10 to install for me. I tried 8.10, but when it didn't install, I figured the hardware was at fault, so gave up until I could justify spending some money on new stuff.

Anyway that day arrived, so I did some research here and on the wiki. Turned out Dianemo used Asrock Ions for their MD, and the word was that it could handle core duties provide not too much was asked. Since I was sure it would work, I bought one barebones and fitted a 1Tb disk and 4Gb ram. Then I put in the latest snapshot and tried to install. No dice.

Kubuntu goes fine, but when I run the LinuxMCE script I get a 'no resume image, doing normal boot' and then it boots to a prompt.
No worries, the forum or the wiki will have the answer, and I'll learn a little Linux on the way. Again no dice. Other people have had the same error, but there seems to be no answers.

Plutohome acted like an appliance, whereas LinuxMCE no longer does.

I am interested what the ultimate goal of LinuxMCE is.

 

merkur2k

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 07:04:59 am »
same as it has always been: to control and integrate every piece of technology in the home.
and we get there in whatever way is possible given the skills that the people working on it currently have. if you feel that there is a better way to do something, we would love to have that help, since the few of us that do actually work on this thing are usually in way over our heads.

tschak909

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 07:16:13 am »
Hi. I am one of the core developers. I understand your frustrations, but please understand that currently, a lot of very hard work right now is being done to redo a lot of internal parts.  We had to get rid of the original DVD installer, because it was failing miserably, and the original PlutoHome installer was made of some very bad hacks that did not scale as time went on...So we've had to do ongoing work to engineer a new solution.

The installation process is still being refined.

We currently have snapshot DVDs which you can install, they are available via the download link on the website.

Our goal is that of a long term Free/Open Source Software project, to create a system that is available for everyone interested to use, and to fulfill the long term research goals of being the world's most advanced smart home platform.

While the goal is to make it an appliance, this is exceptionally difficult, and takes many years of work, by many focused people. As the original company is no longer solvent, that leaves a largely volunteer force to continue what Pluto left off. This included what amounted to a four year period of forensic analysis, trying to understand every square inch of the system so that we could make it better.

The question is, can you help?

-Thom

bongowongo

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 08:15:51 am »
I have followed LinuxMCE since Plutohome, and have always been impressed by what is possible, but find myself wondering what the project is aiming to be.

Is the aim to build the 'best' of it's type? Probably is.
Is it to have the whole world use it? Probably won't happen.

It is always frustrating to me, how difficult Linux types make their projects for the average Joe to install and use. What's the point of making it difficult?

When Plutohome were active, there was a commercial incentive and it was easy to install and use. I didn't even know what Linux was installed underneath, you just burned the two CDs, rebooted and it just worked. Dianemo seems to have the same philosophy.

However, since LinuxMCE has taken the reins, it has got way more complicated, with apt-get this and apt-get that, parts of the wiki say upgrade the distribution and users say don't.

I only ever managed to get 7.10 to install for me. I tried 8.10, but when it didn't install, I figured the hardware was at fault, so gave up until I could justify spending some money on new stuff.

Anyway that day arrived, so I did some research here and on the wiki. Turned out Dianemo used Asrock Ions for their MD, and the word was that it could handle core duties provide not too much was asked. Since I was sure it would work, I bought one barebones and fitted a 1Tb disk and 4Gb ram. Then I put in the latest snapshot and tried to install. No dice.

Kubuntu goes fine, but when I run the LinuxMCE script I get a 'no resume image, doing normal boot' and then it boots to a prompt.
No worries, the forum or the wiki will have the answer, and I'll learn a little Linux on the way. Again no dice. Other people have had the same error, but there seems to be no answers.

Plutohome acted like an appliance, whereas LinuxMCE no longer does.

I am interested what the ultimate goal of LinuxMCE is.

 

Now you know what the ultimate goal is
You can easily install linuxmce in virtualbox just to give it a go, cost you nothing, only time.

hari

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 11:50:16 am »
When Plutohome were active, there was a commercial incentive and it was easy to install and use. I didn't even know what Linux was installed underneath, you just burned the two CDs, rebooted and it just worked. Dianemo seems to have the same philosophy.
If you want a hassle-free appliance why don't you consider buying a solution from dianemo?

br Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

golgoj4

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 05:00:20 pm »
I have followed LinuxMCE since Plutohome, and have always been impressed by what is possible, but find myself wondering what the project is aiming to be.

Is the aim to build the 'best' of it's type? Probably is.
Is it to have the whole world use it? Probably won't happen.

It is always frustrating to me, how difficult Linux types make their projects for the average Joe to install and use. What's the point of making it difficult?

When Plutohome were active, there was a commercial incentive and it was easy to install and use. I didn't even know what Linux was installed underneath, you just burned the two CDs, rebooted and it just worked. Dianemo seems to have the same philosophy.

However, since LinuxMCE has taken the reins, it has got way more complicated, with apt-get this and apt-get that, parts of the wiki say upgrade the distribution and users say don't.

I only ever managed to get 7.10 to install for me. I tried 8.10, but when it didn't install, I figured the hardware was at fault, so gave up until I could justify spending some money on new stuff.

Anyway that day arrived, so I did some research here and on the wiki. Turned out Dianemo used Asrock Ions for their MD, and the word was that it could handle core duties provide not too much was asked. Since I was sure it would work, I bought one barebones and fitted a 1Tb disk and 4Gb ram. Then I put in the latest snapshot and tried to install. No dice.

Kubuntu goes fine, but when I run the LinuxMCE script I get a 'no resume image, doing normal boot' and then it boots to a prompt.
No worries, the forum or the wiki will have the answer, and I'll learn a little Linux on the way. Again no dice. Other people have had the same error, but there seems to be no answers.

Plutohome acted like an appliance, whereas LinuxMCE no longer does.

I am interested what the ultimate goal of LinuxMCE is.

 

Everyone has been nice in their response...i however take a different tack

I was new to linux when i started using linuxmce. It wasnt rocket science to get it running. Maybe your not following instructions? Seems to be common around here with people who think they 'know' how things should work.

Sorry that people donating their free time is such a turn off. Maybe, instead of posting useless comments in the spirit of Captain Obvious, you could try and actually help? Oh wait, nobody wants to do that, they just like to bitch.

Like i said, ive installed 7.04 when i knew NOTHING about linux, 810, and run 1004 now. So pardon me if this just seems like someone venting because their pet case was'nt addressed.

Does linuxmce have its warts? Sure! But with like 10 people actually trying to improved and the rest kicking back and throwing stones, im surprised the dev's have stuck around this long, much less making progress. I mean, nevermind how many bugs have been squashed recently, its all about YOU!

dont let the door hit ya,
-golgoj4


*sans coffee / heavy on hyperbole :)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 12:51:21 am by golgoj4 »
Official Releases
http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiter-release.apk latest Qt4 android apk  http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiterQt5-release.apk for the Qt5 Android version http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiter-release.dmg for the MacOSX version

Unstable Nightlies
http://langstonball.com/downloads

rndinokc

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 09:52:22 pm »
Like anything, bite off what you can chew and nibble on the rest.  LinuxMCE is not easy but it is rewarding.  I am admittedly a bad citizen of the community but I do what I can and I enjoy being a part of it even if I lack a contribution.  I am hoping someday to be able to do that.  The developers KNOW the path they want to take and they know the difficulty first hand.  Really, do they need someone to tell them?  I don't think so.  In the past few months I have seen more things working and more fascinating stuff coming from the devs than in a couple of years.  Don't take that as a negative it just takes a tremendous amount of time and I as a "Bad" citizen can understand that.  I don't think they have a nice LMCE office with secretaries, coffee and danish that the devs hang out at just wasting time and collecting a paycheck.  I mean these guys "love" LMCE with a passion and probably spend most of any free time they have with development, squashing bugs and documentation.  All of this for essentially nothing but the joy and gratification that comes from creating a piece of art, LMCE.  Well that was my two cents.  To the developers, Thom, Golgoj4, Hari, Andrew and everyone.  Thanks.
Randy

MarcoZan

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 12:28:08 pm »
When Plutohome were active, there was a commercial incentive and it was easy to install and use. I didn't even know what Linux was installed underneath, you just burned the two CDs, rebooted and it just worked. Dianemo seems to have the same philosophy.

I also have been following this project since PlutoHome times (back in 2005), but actually I can't remember that it was easy to install ...
Also at that time it was very hardware sensitive, and more often than not the automatic update mechanism was breacking the system.
I can't count the times I had to rebuild from scratch my server because update had scr**ed the sistem up ...
I can't also count the times I had to recompile kernel, drivers in order to fit Pluto in my system.

So I would't blame that much on the actual system, that is beeing worked on also to squash these kind of difficulties.

I agree with you that probably it won't ever be something to hand to an average Joe, but I think that the same apply to any system that deals with some internal complexity.
I don't think that you expect that deploying a KNX system should be an average Joe task ...

Regards
Marco

golgoj4

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2011, 12:51:56 am »
Like anything, bite off what you can chew and nibble on the rest.  LinuxMCE is not easy but it is rewarding.  I am admittedly a bad citizen of the community but I do what I can and I enjoy being a part of it even if I lack a contribution.  I am hoping someday to be able to do that.  The developers KNOW the path they want to take and they know the difficulty first hand.  Really, do they need someone to tell them?  I don't think so.  In the past few months I have seen more things working and more fascinating stuff coming from the devs than in a couple of years.  Don't take that as a negative it just takes a tremendous amount of time and I as a "Bad" citizen can understand that.  I don't think they have a nice LMCE office with secretaries, coffee and danish that the devs hang out at just wasting time and collecting a paycheck.  I mean these guys "love" LMCE with a passion and probably spend most of any free time they have with development, squashing bugs and documentation.  All of this for essentially nothing but the joy and gratification that comes from creating a piece of art, LMCE.  Well that was my two cents.  To the developers, Thom, Golgoj4, Hari, Andrew and everyone.  Thanks.
Randy

im not a dev, i just help out where i can. :)

-golgoj4
Official Releases
http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiter-release.apk latest Qt4 android apk  http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiterQt5-release.apk for the Qt5 Android version http://deb.linuxmce.org/QOrbiter-release.dmg for the MacOSX version

Unstable Nightlies
http://langstonball.com/downloads

uplink

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 02:13:34 pm »
Right now Dianemo doesn't have a easy install DVD either. The difference is that when you buy a system we do the installation for you, so it seems easy. We also help if you run into trouble. I'm making it easier every chance I get, but the idea is we have a person here who does all the installs and by doing so many installs he got around various gotchas as time went by. It also seems easy because we have a limited choice of hardware, and I tend to scream a lot when new hardware that I didn't get to test gets thrown in the mix and is expected to work.

If anything, the key word here is "persistence". Install, scream, format, start over. In a few weeks you'll figure out a few patterns and it will work. If possible, make some notes for the rest of us. Sometimes a little note about a little quirk can light a lightbulb in someone's head about something he's been thinking on when idle but is at the back of their head and need a little nudge to surface. And when it surfaces, it's such a simple thing that the person in question will have no peace unless they do it.

maverick0815

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 05:58:24 pm »
Just my two cents....I've been with linuxmce since 7.10 turned officially beta. Of course I had some problems at the beginning...problems like everyone who learns a new system. However, everytime I ran into a problem, I turned to the forum for help or to irc...and help I always got.
This system is something you don't pay a single cent for...and now turn over to something commercially available. Some companies have a public community, where you can go and cry your heart out and where there is usually only a forum administrator to take all the heat...and hardly anyone with knowledge and competence from the company's side of the fence....If you want proper help there, you have to shell out quite some coins, especially with very complex systems.
So in my mind, sad but true, if there are people coming around with an attitude and complain that this isn't just easy-peasy installation like some commercial thingy, they perhaps just people too lazy or mentally impaired. I'm certainly not a genius, but what is actually soo difficult about installing this thing?

uplink

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 06:15:27 pm »
Kubuntu goes fine, but when I run the LinuxMCE script I get a 'no resume image, doing normal boot' and then it boots to a prompt.
No worries, the forum or the wiki will have the answer, and I'll learn a little Linux on the way. Again no dice. Other people have had the same error, but there seems to be no answers.

This is one of those lightbulb moments: Can you verify that things have really stopped? There are cases when things are just slow before X is started and you are left watching a login prompt which can make you think that's as far as you'll go. A thing that comes to mind that could slow things down this way is the lack of a Internet connection. Please login and paste a list of running processes in here. Use this command:
Code: [Select]
ps -axf to get the process tree. Ping google.com while you're there to confirm the Internet works too.

Why do I get the feeling I shouldn't assume you know how to redirect the output of a command to a file and paste it to a website?

tmwillett

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 03:38:29 am »
I too want to say 'Thank You' to all of those who develop and support LMCE.  I started with it a year or two ago on a VM to just see how it stacked up to the competition.  I'm cheap by nature, so I didn't want to purchase anything off-the-shelf when you're stuck with what it offers and can't customize it to your needs.  LMCE fits the bill for those of us who may not know how to do everything, but aren't afraid to take some risks and try it to see. 

I now have a full LMCE system running with 4 MD's and the core.  It has enabled me to centrally control my X10 lighting, TV's, DVR, Movies, Music, Pictures, etc and even allowed me to drop DISH Network and do everything over the air or over the Internet.  My goal was to replace my existing capabilities and provide some cool enhancements for the family.  Needless to say, we've now got the most overcomplicated home network on the block, but at the same time, they're all asking me how I did it.

LMCE is not for the timid, that's for sure.  But if you're willing to do a little legwork, and learn a little along the way, it's the BEST system out there for what it does.  It'll probably never be ready for Joe User to just install it and go, but there's nothing out there like that today that has the same features and capabilities.

The LMCE community is more than willing to help each other out, and that is why I chose this product to go with.  If you're having problems installing it, don't feel intimidated.  There's not one of us out here who has had a perfect installation, but we ask questions to get the answers we need.

Farmboy

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 03:48:08 am »
Thank you for all your helpful replies. Perhaps I could contribute by writing an 'Installation for Dummies' type wiki entry?

I now have 8.10 installed!! I am very impressed with the improvements over 7.1. There certainly appears to have been a lot of excellent work put into it.
My first wiki entry will be, that I've learned that it 'seems' to be essential to have an internet connection for a successful installation. Probably not technically true, but things went better with one.

The trouble is that my internet connection is a 3G modem perched on a window sill attached to a 3G router, in the coldest room in the (rented) house!!!

bongowongo

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Re: Ultimate Goal of LinuxMCE
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 07:59:05 am »
Farmboy, there is a installation guide in the wiki, but if you want to make a installtion for dummies, e.g. explain linux lingo, etc etc etc.
Be my guest.